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признак искусственности, лишенной хозяйственного смысла
Анализ потребления
Aug 26, 2019 23:04
4 yrs ago
Russian term

Какой по счету брак

Russian to English Law/Patents Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs
Это фраза в заявлении на вступление в брак (Узбекистан)
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 Which marriage is this (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc)?
4 Number of precedent marriages
3 ordinal number of (the) present marriage
Change log

Aug 26, 2019 23:04: Karen Zaragoza changed "Vetting" from "Needs Vetting" to "Vet OK"

Aug 26, 2019 23:04: Karen Zaragoza changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"

Discussion

Turdimurod Rakhmanov Aug 31, 2019:
http://inter-wedding.com/en/dokumenty-marriage.html
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Aug 31, 2019:
to DT SM, Your opinion is "alternative view is wrong". Ok, you'd better prove it, without proof that's pointless.
David Knowles Aug 29, 2019:
My understanding was the same as Frank's, but there is clearly a disagreement about the meaning here, and I'll leave it to the носители языка to sort it out!
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Aug 29, 2019:
It is the number of previous marriages plus the present one. If this is the second marriage, then there is one previous marriage. Number two is then the ordinal number of present marriage.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Aug 28, 2019:
If it is a form, then it is better to say - number of (prior) marriages.
If not, question form works, for ex how many times have you been married?
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Aug 28, 2019:
Dear David, The Russian source clearly means the prior marriage. The only thing is here Russian people say differently the same thing. More clearly- УЖЕ какой по счету брак? We can't render literally for ex. *осторожно, злая собака* as in the original. What woud you say it?
Simon Hollingsworth Aug 26, 2019:
The direct translation, I suppose, would be "Which marriage is this?" but this is not a standard turn of phrase in such a document. In a British marriage application, a question would appear such as "Is this your first marriage?" If the answer is "No", then the next question might be "How many times have you been married before?" The answer to the question "Which marriage is this?" would then be learned. I don't think a direct translation would work here.

Proposed translations

+1
15 hrs
Selected

Which marriage is this (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc)?

I agree with Simon that this is not a natural statement for English forms, but trying to add an extra question in the translation would probably cause other problems! Neither can you use "ordinal number", which makes sense only to mathematicians (in distinction to "cardinal number").

An example in brackets would make it clear. It might need to be more precise if this is going to be read automatically.

What is the number of this marriage (1=first, 2=second, 3=third, etc)?

If you don't want a question mark, rephrase as "Please give the number..."
Peer comment(s):
agree Pavlo Astashonok
3 hrs
Thanks Pavlo!
disagree Boris Shapiro : The thing is, you are clearly mistaken. From the point of view of Russian grammar, this is not a question at all!
21 hrs
It's a matter of the best English translation, not of grammar. The meaning is clear, but a natural translation is difficult (as Simon said in his discussion entry).
agree DTSM : The "alternative view" is wrong. You and Frank got it right.
2 days 1 hr
Thanks - but see discussion for an alternative view!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you"
23 mins

ordinal number of (the) present marriage

You can find this phrase in a few places:
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
[k4] How many times have you been married/cohabiting (ordinal number of present marriage/cohabitation)?
https://services.fsd.uta.fi/catalogue/FSD1229?tab=variables&...
ccccccccccccc
Sometimes, in 1900-1930, the ordinal number of the marriage will be indicated, eg. “m1”;
in such cases, this number will be prepended, eg. “2m3y” means 2
nd marriage, 3 yrs duration.
http://www.johnbrobb.com/Content/USCensus.pdf

cccccc
If multiple marriages are known for a husband (m) or a wife (f), this field
contains the ordinal number of that marriage which is being documented in this
case. "1" stands for the "first marriage", "2" for "second marriage", etc.
https://eckart-voland.de/pdf/Datenbankbeschreibung-kurz-e.pd...
ccccccccccccc
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

Number of precedent marriages

Number of precedent marriages
In this context, it is about:
Prior to this marriage, how many times did you marry or enter into marriage.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2019-08-27 01:55:03 GMT)
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And it all depends on the context.
If it says "В какой по счету брак вступает он или она"
Then "What number of marriage are you entering into".
If it is just a form to fill in, in that case "number of precedent marriages" works.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2019-08-27 02:03:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oh, sorry, tense should not be past part.
Prior to this marriage, how many times have you been married.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2019-08-27 02:27:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or
number of prior marriages

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2019-08-27 05:29:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think if it is an application or form, you may use short version:
Number of marriages
Peer comment(s):
neutral Boris Shapiro : 'Prior marriages' is OK. 'Precedent' is most certainly not.
1 day 9 hrs
Yes i know, Boris, i also don' t like prior marriages, i think just " number of marriages" maybe.
neutral David Knowles : It's the number of prior marriages plus one...//But if you are interpreting the number 3 (say), the understanding has to be the same in both languages. A webform in both languages could be populated by the same data.
1 day 13 hrs
Thank you, David for your opinion. Yes, but the meaning is the same. If the source is +1, it does not mean that the target should be +1. If your prior marriage is 2 times, it goes without saying that this is the third. It's logically correct. I think.
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