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entre certaines mains
milieu émulatif

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

trottiner

English translation:

beset

Added to glossary by Wendy Streitparth
Nov 19, 2019 11:09
4 yrs ago
French term

trottiner

French to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
The context is a discussion of an art historian's work concerning the depiction of horses in engravings of the seventeenth century. The writer praises the fresh approach offered in a student's doctoral proposal, and compared it with the approach of the student's predecessors:

"Séduisante, cette approche apporterait des réponses d'une toute autre nature à des questions stylistiques qui trottinent les chercheurs depuis des décennies : la définition du Maniérisme, la querelle du Baroque, etc."

I have the impression that "trottinent" is used somewhat disparagingly here, but I am puzzled by the grammar as well as the meaning, since trottiner is an intransitive verb, but seems to take "les chercheurs" as its object here.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions!
Proposed translations (English)
2 +2 beset (here)
4 +3 trot out/put forward
3 +1 fret
3 jog
3 to concern
References
Trotter
Change log

Nov 24, 2019 19:40: Wendy Streitparth Created KOG entry

Discussion

Ph_B (X) Nov 19, 2019:
Yvonne, No worries, you understood the meaning anyway. There are some rather bizarre, but fun things in this text. No wonder questions are asked.
Yvonne Gallagher Nov 19, 2019:
@Ph_B Thanks. I stand corrected about "que". I don't usually get into a debate about French grammar. Mea culpa. However, I understood the gist of this sentence once I'd looked up "trottiner" (a new verb to me)
Wolf Draeger Nov 19, 2019:
Style vs Grammar Let's not forget that from what we've seen, this writer has a very particular style, so I don't find it surprising that he bends the rules of grammar to achieve his effect—as many of the best writers do.

Not that I'm much taken with this writer so far, but I am very much in favour of grammar serving style instead of the other way round.
Ph_B (X) Nov 19, 2019:
I agree that que could make sense if you think that chercheurs is the subject. And so, if you reverse the word order of the sentence, you get: les chercheurs trottinent des questions. Fine. May I ask what it means, please?<p>On the other hand, let's for a minute look at the (admittedly rare) example supplied by TLFi: 2. Empl. trans. Obséder, revenir sans cesse à l'esprit. Le mariage espagnol n'avait pas cessé de me trottiner (Audiberti, Mal court, 1947, II, p. 158). Or, if you reverse the word order of the example: ...le mariage espagnol [qui] trottine la personne désignée par « me »... Or, if you apply this to our question, ...les questions qui trottinent les chercheurs... QED. <p>In other words, you have the choice between 1) what you think what the French should be like but that, I, as a native speaker, find a bit difficult to understand, and 2) a rather unusual use of a verb, but that is however attested by a reliable dictionary, and which I, as a native speaker, understood almost immediately (I did hesitate at first). Only wrote this to "defend" the text, since I agree anyway with Yvonne's "In effect it means the same thing..."
Yvonne Gallagher Nov 19, 2019:
@ Marco et al I agree that it should be "que" and that the "questions stylistiques" ... "trottinent les chercheurs depuis des décennies". However, inanimate things don't usually act as the verb subject in English sentences (making people the object) hence why I changed the position.
In effect it means the same thing: questions of style troubling/bedevilling/preoccupying researchers for decades means that researchers have been raising these questions for decades because they have been troubled by them. (I think "obsessed" or "plagued" by may be too strong)
To keep the horsey image I suggested "trot out" which has the same sense of repetition but there are lots of ways of expressing this. I've given several. But I am NOT doing a literal translation of "trottiner", but rather more like transcreation to get the inherent idea across.
Marco Solinas Nov 19, 2019:
Grammar The way the sentence is structured ("...des questions stylistiques qui trottinent les chercheurs depuis des décennies :"), it is the "questions stylistiques" that "trottinent les chercheurs depuis des décennies"); not the other way around.
Ph_B (X) Nov 19, 2019:
I agree it's strange, but let's face it, that's not the first stange thing from your text. As you say, it's an intransitive verb but the text makes it clear that questions is the subject and chercheurs the object. Using trottiner like that may be disparaging, but it's definitely familiar. Polyglot45's "plague" is the right meaning, but wonder whether it might not be a tad too strong. There's something "light" about trottiner. If you're happy to leave aside any reference to horses, would "titillate" possibly work here?/To add (and perhaps I should have started there) that TLFi mentions: Obséder, revenir sans cesse à l'esprit and gives an example as a transitive verb.
Marco Solinas Nov 19, 2019:
Qui or que Is it possible that "qui trottinent" is a typo for "que trottinent"?
polyglot45 Nov 19, 2019:
the expression is usually trottiner dans la tête de quelqu'un.
Trottiner is a diminutive of trotter.

Replies to questions that have long plagued ......

Proposed translations

+2
5 hrs
Selected

beset (here)

which have beset researchers....
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : I think it's something along these lines. The researchers are the object of the sentence, not the subject.
2 hrs
Thanks, Phil. That seems to be the bone of contention!
agree SafeTex : neat solution
1 day 6 hrs
Thanks, SafeTex
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+3
12 mins

trot out/put forward

researchers have been putting forward/trotting out the same questions aqbout style for decades...

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/trot-...

"trot out" (with the meaning of repeating the same old thing time after time) is used, and keeps the association with horses, but I've given an alternative in case you think the register is too informal

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Note added at 17 mins (2019-11-19 11:26:44 GMT)
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typo: about (in 1st line)

I like the Polygot's "long plagued" as well. It has that sense of endless debate that's been going nowhere...so that's why the student's approach is so refreshing

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2019-11-19 11:30:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Invoke" "raise" could also be used...the same questions invoked/raised by researchers for decades..
Peer comment(s):
agree Wolf Draeger : "Trot out" is good, keeps the horsey tone.
24 mins
Many thanks:-)
agree Helen Shiner
26 mins
Many thanks:-)
neutral philgoddard : I can't find any dictionary support for this, and "qui" would have to be a typo for "que". I think the resemblance to "trot out" may be a coincidence.
1 hr
it's not intended as a LITERAL translation of "trottiner" so no "coincidence" at all
agree B D Finch
5 hrs
Thanks:-)
Something went wrong...
43 mins

jog

As we've seen with previous questions on this text, the writer appears very deliberate in his choice of words and likes nothing more than (what he thinks is) a good pun, even if it means bending grammar somewhat.

"Jog" in EN could have a similar play on words here in the sense of the slow trot of a horse and the prompting or stirring of the mind.
Example sentence:

The approach's appeal lies in its entirely fresh take on questions that have jogged researchers for decades [...]

Something went wrong...
+1
3 hrs

fret

matches low-key annoyance level of "trottiner"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2019-11-20 00:11:41 GMT)
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thanks:). I had more of a "rabbit-y" image with that.
Peer comment(s):
agree Wolf Draeger : Or how a horse might gnaw away at their harness or tether in anxiety or frustration! // In fact, "gnaw at" could also work.
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
13 hrs

to concern

"to beset" captures the meaning well, I think, but sounds a little archaic to me, so "to concern" would be better. On the other hand, as a very free translation, I do like "trot out".
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

10 mins
Reference:

Trotter

I am not sure this is relevant, but "préoccuper" is a synonym of "trotter". See https://books.google.ca/books?id=BoWOQpNoO9oC&pg=PA690&lpg=P...
"trottiner is also a synonym of "trotter", but with a different meaning.
Reference:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=BoWOQpNoO9oC&pg=PA690&lpg=PA690&dq=%22trottiner%22+%22pr%C3%A9occuper%22&source=bl&ots=H1_hb4mz2z&sig=ACfU

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree philgoddard : I think this may be the answer. Here's a working URL: https://books.google.ca/books?id=BoWOQpNoO9oC&pg=PA690&lpg=P..."trottiner"+"préoccuper"&source=bl&ots=H1_hb4mz2z&sig=ACfU#v=onepage&q="trottiner"%20"préoccuper"&f=false
1 hr
agree Ph_B (X) : Same with TLFi - see discussion.
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
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