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Portuguese to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - History / Academic essay on formation of Brazil
Portuguese term or phrase:recorte espacial
This is from an academic essay on the formation of Brazil, relating at this point to human slavery and other abuses.
"Todos estes elementos juntos expõem não um momento específico, isolado, mas uma vergonhosa tradição nos processos relativos a apropriação territorial desde que o recorte espacial se constituiu como referente aos domínios ibéricos daquela América Portuguesa.."
I am unsure whether the idea relates more to "spatial distribution" or to the "splitting", "mapping", "dividing" aspect, so I am just looking for the most accurate nuance here. I don't think a literal translation can work, and I am not so keen on the existing Proz entries on this phrase,
Explanation: Since the source text seems to be differentiating between the Iberian oppressors and those who have been inhabitants of the territory prior to the former's arrival. "Spatial boundary" is both a geographical and psychological term.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2022-01-21 19:49:12 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
"...since the spatial boundary evolved in such a way that it separated/created a divisionbetween", etc., or something similar to that.
Thank you for your assistance, but I also have no wish for a discussion on my own question, when I have a job to complete for my client. However you seem to have misunderstood my use of the term structure, and also lost the thread of why I posted those links. I was certainly not comparing dividing lines as you seem to think. I was merely indicating to you how you had misunderstood my usage of the term "structure". I am sorry if you did not understand my language usage, but if you consider the context around the rest of the paragraph, you may start to understand what I meant (I.e.the relevance is found either side of the line ). Thank you for help, and once again, I am sorry if my figurative use of language has either confused or offended you, as seems to be the case.
I didn't really want to continue this discussion, but I think I need to point out that a straight line doesn't have a structure. The historic importance of the Treaty is that the line was absolutely straight, leading to a vast unexpected outcome. I hope you have looked at the map links that I posted. By contrast, the Ukrainian border wiggles all over the place; in fact, the article you cite refers to a line of fortresses, not the border itself. Your second example refers to the command structure of an Army division, which is composed of 3 or 4 brigades (about 10,000 servicemen). Please, let's both move on.
I think you have lost the thread of my conversation, I used the term to explain m usage of "structure", which you said you also did not understand. In the meantime, please see this article where you might begin to understand this figurative use of the word "structure". In the meantime, I need to get back to my translation and respective kudoz question. (basically I was using structure figuratively and not technically, so I apologise for confusing you.)
https://www.waterlooassociation.org.uk/2016/06/15/pictons-di... "This study looks at the STRUCTURE OF THE DIVISION from its famous commander downwards, through the Brigade and battalion officers to the regiments themselves, examining the command structure of such a formation. "
I used the word structure to describe the plan. I am aware that we are not talking about something that is built up and I did not suggest using the term "structure" in my choice of Kudoz term. This was a passing comment to describe the formation/shape of the line, which in this case happens to be case (i.e. I was using it figuratively). I am sorry if you did not understand what I meant.
Let's look at it this way: A dividing line doesn't create a 'structure'. If you slice a pizza down the middle, have you created a structure? I think you're adding a layer that doesn't exist. I envy you this assignment! My husband was a Brazilian historian and historic preservationist. He used to give lectures about the Treaty of Tordesillas.
That seems odd to me and off-point. If I were reading the translation, I wouldn't understand what you meant. I offered some synonyms in my answer. One of them was 'partition'. In the first map link I sent you, you can see that the Treaty divided the entire world, including the seas, into two big slices. It's a matter of slices with no structure whatsoever.
Thank you for the information. For your information, I was referring to the division/boundary when I said structuring. Sorry, maybe I should have just said line, but I was referring to the point it was placed with regards to the structure of Iberian land one side and Portuguese American the other.
Structuring is just a way of describing the organisation or plan of land, although this was obviously how it was imagined at the time. (i.e. in this case the structure would have been vertical or an edge or whatever).
I don't understand what you mean by 'land structuring'. The Treaty of Tordesillas drew a straight vertical line: "a meridian 370 leagues west of the Cape Verde islands, off the west coast of Africa. That line of demarcation was about halfway between the Cape Verde islands (already Portuguese) and the islands entered by Christopher Columbus on his first voyage (claimed for Castile and León)" Meridians run vertically from the North Pole to the South Pole. The signatories were unaware that a whole continent lay to the south and east. Take a ruler and look at the line on the map and you're have a better understanding of how it went and its future implications.
Yes, as Muriel says, I am looking for a way that best expresses the line/division being described, within the phrasing given. Distribution and further events will certainly result from this land structuring, but does not exactly describe the term used in this part of the paragraph/sentence. Barbara seems to have picked up on the nuance I was looking for because this relates to both the "cutting up" of land and the social administrative consequences.
Correct. But that doesn't affect the translation, which is simply referring to the line dividing up the territory between the two Iberian powers, ultimately/finally/definitively enshrined in the Treaty of Tordesillas/Tordesilhas. It was lucky for Portugal that no one knew how large the continent is!
Indeed, Muriel. But before that, there was the "Bula Papal" (Bula Inter Coetera), before they had any idea of the size of South America, and thought it was only an island, whose line was in the middle of the Atlantic and left almost nothing to Portugal. The powerful Portugal of that time complained thoroughly, until they started to discuss the new Tordesillas Treaty. Otherwise, Brazil would have been a Spanish colony, as well as the entire South America. Too bad they didn't give a slice to England, France or Holland. We'd certainly be a bit better off today :)
I am happy for this to be changed also, but I have no idea the best place for it. I think History is more relevant than Geography, but even so there may be something better than that - maybe some kind of society-based field?
IMO, General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters is not the best field for this question. Could we change it to History or even Geography?
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
36 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
spatial distribution
Explanation: :) Considering the context
Clauwolf Local time: 20:53 Native speaker of: Portuguese PRO pts in category: 12
57 mins confidence:
spatial outline
Explanation: it seems to refer to the occupied part of land owned by Portugal. In other context, a 'recorte' in Brazilian Portuguese is a 'cutout' (e.g., from a newspaper)
Katarina Peters Canada Local time: 19:53 Native speaker of: Hungarian, English PRO pts in category: 5
Explanation: Since the source text seems to be differentiating between the Iberian oppressors and those who have been inhabitants of the territory prior to the former's arrival. "Spatial boundary" is both a geographical and psychological term.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2022-01-21 19:49:12 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
"...since the spatial boundary evolved in such a way that it separated/created a divisionbetween", etc., or something similar to that.
Barbara Cochran, MFA United States Local time: 19:53 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, how would you phrase this using boundary?
Asker: Thanks, but I am wondering if boundary could work on its own, as land space is given and understood in terms of this word, i.e. "spatial" seems redundant here.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 18 hrs (2022-01-22 11:44:40 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Also 'territorial demarcation'
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 hrs (2022-01-22 12:10:19 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Synonyms for 'division': apportionment, bisection, demarcation, partition,
(I rejected 'carving out' because the line is too arbitrary.)
Muriel Vasconcellos United States Local time: 16:53 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 60
Reference comments
1 hr
Reference
Reference information: A mim parece-me que apropriação territorial, 3 palavras antes, nos dá uma pista par a tradução 'espaço territorial' - mapping, your best sggestion for me Multicriteria Geologic Data Analysis for Mineral Favorability Mapping: - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1014235703541()
José Patrício Portugal Native speaker of: Portuguese
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