Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

en la forme anglo-saxonne

English translation:

in Common Law (Anglo-American) form

Added to glossary by Adrian MM.
Jun 22, 2022 12:05
1 yr ago
40 viewers *
French term

en la forme anglo-saxonne

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) Will
La greffe de la Justice de paix atteste que:

par testament fait en la forme anglo-saxonne, rédigé en langue anglaise.....Madame XY a désigmé AB et CD aux fonctions d'exésuteurs testamentaires...

I have previously ranted on this forum about the notion of "Anglo Saxon" law, albeit francophone countries seem to like the term. Let us remember that the Anglo Saxons were Germanic tribes who invaded Britain in the 5th century. The amount of "Anglo Saxon law" remaining in the deposit of law and it is in fact Norman French law that had had the largest influence in shaping the law of England, USA etc.

However, the document is a formal certificate. My inclination is to translate as "in Anglo Saxon (sic) form" and to insert a translator's note (something that I hardly ever do) to the effect that this really means "in Common Law form".

Would be interested to know if anyone has alternative suggestions.
Change log

Jun 23, 2022 15:53: Adrian MM. Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Rachel Fell

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Discussion

Conor McAuley Jun 25, 2022:
Aye!
AllegroTrans (asker) Jun 24, 2022:
Conor I wonder if howls of protest would follow if we used "franco-normand" - which actually would not be far from a correct description of our legal systems and certainly more accurate than "anglo-saxon"
Conor McAuley Jun 23, 2022:
Yes Chris, it's such a lazy and hazy word. Slip "Frankish" into your speech or writing and wait for the howls of complaint!
AllegroTrans (asker) Jun 23, 2022:
Thanks all I ended up using "in Common Law (Anglo-American) form" as a translator's note and translating "anglo-saxonne" literally followed by (sic). Despite my urge, I managed to contain my rage.
Bourth Jun 22, 2022:
Re. use of Anglo-Saxon in English [what's in square brackets is mine]
Concise Oxford, 1976 - "*[means chiefly US, also often Canadian, Australian, etc.] [in] modern English, (colloq.) [...] (person)of English descent (wherever found)

SOED, 1983 - "Used rhet. for 'English' in its ethnological sense [...] Hence 'Anglo-Saxondom' [...] rhet. for Great Britain and the United States"

Webster's New World Coll. - "4. a person of English nationality or descent"

With the same meanings when used adjectivally.
Conor McAuley Jun 22, 2022:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/common-law

common law

Alternate titles: Anglo-American law
By Mary Ann Glendon See All • Edit History
Henry II and Thomas Becket
Henry II and Thomas Becket
See all media
Key People: Sir William Blackstone Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. Sir Edward Coke Sir Matthew Hale James Kent
Related Topics: equity coverture feme sole stare decisis judicial lawmaking
Summary
Read a brief summary of this topic
common law, also called Anglo-American law, the body of customary law, based upon judicial decisions and embodied in reports of decided cases, that has been administered by the common-law courts of England since the Middle Ages. From it has evolved the type of legal system now found also in the United States and in most of the member states of the Commonwealth (formerly the British Commonwealth of Nations).
Emmanuella Jun 22, 2022:
J'ai posté ce link uniquement pour indiquer ce qu'ils entendent par forme 'anglaise'
AllegroTrans (asker) Jun 22, 2022:
Thanks Emmanuella But translating to "in the English form" would be utterly meaningless and confusing since 67 different countries, with varying legal systems, have English as an official language
Emmanuella Jun 22, 2022:
Forme anglosaxonne Ici, sous forme 'anglaise', cf. https://fr.chatelaine.com/societe/testament-quelle-formule-c...
ezpz Jun 22, 2022:
I think your suggestion is good, with the (sic), and adding a translator's note seems correct, either at footer or in [square brackets].
This is kind of hilarious.
I think in France, like in Spain and maybe other places too, when people say anglo-saxon they colloquially refer to Brits and Americans.
This being a formal document, I think it's best to contain your rage/laughter, and do the needful ;D

Proposed translations

+2
2 hrs
Selected

in English Common Law (Anglo-American) form

It's this chestnut again. Anglo-American is the con ventional DEU/ENG translation, but without any ethnic or racial overtones of the 'controversial' Anglo-Saxon & Viking history course offered at Oxbridge.

No need to bring any other English-speaking countries - even British Commonwealth - into the equation.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2022-06-23 15:38:15 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Wilfægenimp hafa !

Channel Islanders don't have a problem with the Norman French connection - conveyances of land being written in the vernacular until 1974 - though French commentators do, insisting on references to the 'Anglo-Norman Isles'. One Daily Mail English reader asked: 'where are they?' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_French

Otherwise, as Irish Solicitors are wont to point out or mock, Equitable Trusts - that English & Welsh lawyers are 'so proud of' - came into English law via Norman French.
Example sentence:

IATE: source of law [LAW, sources and branches of the law] Consilium en Redirected from: Anglo-American law fr common law Consilium

Note from asker:
I like "Anglo-American" when applied (strictly of course) to legal and governmental systems. Have never understood why the French shy away from the fact that a massive chunk of Common Law is of Norman French pedigree
Peer comment(s):

agree Conor McAuley : Common or Anglo-American law, from Encyclopaedia Britannica: https://www.britannica.com/topic/common-law / No need to specify "English", by the way
45 mins
Thanks, Conor, and merci. I prefixed with English only to juxtapose the faux ami of 'de droit commun' and that is lost on most UK language (!) graduates running translation agencies: 'why doesn't the latter translate as Common Law? You are out on a limb.'
agree Steve Robbie : Yes to "Anglo-American"
53 mins
Thanks, Steve. Anglo-American is more German / English 'conventional angelsächsisches wisdom' that is slow to trickle down and filter through to French and other languages.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Ic þancie þē"
+4
12 mins

in the form customary in (most) English-speaking countries

As you don't like "anglo-saxon", I offer this alternative. You can keep or omit "most".
Note from asker:
Thanks for this suggestion
Peer comment(s):

agree ezpz : Sounds like a nice, self-explanatory (no need for a translator's note), alternative.
15 mins
agree Barbara Cochran, MFA
45 mins
agree philgoddard
2 hrs
agree Michael Meskers
11 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

We've had this before

For example, http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/finance-general/...
Please check the glossary next time.
Note from asker:
Thanks Phil but as Adrian says, we haven't had this term in the same "form" before
I'm also very aware of the glossary having made several previous contributions (and rants) regarding this term
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral Adrian MM. : That assumes a 'direct hit', rather than a series of misleading 'English-speaking' approximations. // Great colleagues, but not such great answers.
9 mins
agree writeaway : Some really great colleagues there on that question
17 mins
Something went wrong...
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