9 mins confidence:   peer agreement (net): +1 | The son, the Maybe say
Explanation:
Something like "The 'son' music style/genre" the first time, then simply son thereafter, or maybe "the son style" or "the son genre" for a little variety. The context should hopefully make clear that it's the musical style being referred to, and not someone's son!
Having said that though, I don't see anything particularly wrong with italicising it. This is often done with certain foreign words, and I think it could work OK here. Hope this helps a bit.
| Rowan Morrell
New Zealand
Local time: 13:34
Native speaker of:  English
PRO pts in category: 4
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| | Grading comment I hate to have to bring this question to an end, since it brought forth so many interesting and valuable commmentaries, but I must.
I think the best way to handle this would be to call the son (and all other Spanish mames of musical genres) by its name in italics, but only the first time. Then just call the son, guaracha, tumbao, etc. I believe that would be the most sensible option, so I do not with e text cluttered with italicized words.
Rowan
You were the first to come up wit he the general idea of leaving the son "as is", and Kelly supported your contribution with a useful commentary of her own, so I am awarding you the KudoZ
Susana
You eventually arrived at the same conclusion as Rowan's, but 22 minutes later. Your contributions, as always, are quite useful, well-documented and much appreciated
BAmary
Thanks so much for the very useful reference to the Chicago Manual of Style. However, in my situation, there would be so many words in italics that the text would become very awkward, so I will endow myself with a bit of poetic license.
Luisa
Your idea is good, but I could not call it the "Cuban son" over and over. Besides, almost everything in the book is Cuban already.
Andrea
Your idea of consistency is quite correct, and it has helped me to arrive to my decision. No italics on anything, except the first time a foreign term appears.
Richard
Even though I am not following your advice as to the main reason I posted this question, your participation made it so much enjoyable, with your vast knowledge and impressive background.
I hope to see you around more often, hermano.
Mil gracias, y... que siga la rumba! |
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14 mins confidence:
31 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2 Use Italics
Explanation:
Note: I will use "son" with quotation marks in my explanation.
The term "son" in Cuban music is somewhat complicated. If talking about "el son", this implies Cuban music in general. "Son cubano" also implies Cuban music in general. However, if you are talking about "son montuno", the "son montuno" is an established Cuban rhythm along with the "guaguancó", "guaracha", "guajira",Mambo, Cha-Cha-Cha, Bembé, Mozambique, Songo, Timba, et al. In that case, you would have to put the two words "son montuno" in italics. Also, when talking about the "guaguancó", you have "guaguancó callejera", which is basically all percussion, and you have the uptempo and medium tempo "guaguancó" where a dance band is involved. The medium tempo "guaguanco" is sometimes referred to as "son guaguancó", which implies that it is medium tempo, not uptempo. Just like in the case of "son montuno", both words should be italicized. This what I am able to give you at this point.
You will also find the term "son" used in Mexico in two word combinations, namely, "Son Jarocho" and "Son Huasteco". Just like "Son Montuno" and "Son Guaguanco", both words should be italicized. Hope this helps.
My background: I have been involved with Cuban music/salsa/latin jazz music for 40 years as a radio commentator on Mexico City radio (1972-1995), writer for US Hispanic publications (Latin New York, Mambo Express, and Latin Beat Magazine). I am also an amateur conga and bongo drummer, and sat in and jammed with the top Mexico City salsa bands (1969-1983) including Pepe Arévalo y sus Mulatos, Grupo La Libertad, etc.
On the linguistic side, I taught ESL/EFL here in Mexico City for 30 years including stints at the UNAM & IPN. For the last 15 years, I have specialized in translating accounting, tax, and financial documents for international accounting firms, banks, stock brokerage firms, etc. Music is my big passion and hobby.
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Note added at 2004-06-03 01:10:41 (GMT)
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You may be interested in knowing that the Cuban group \"Los Papines\" recorded a CD of Beatle music in a \"guaguancó callejero\" style, and the CD is entitled \"Here Comes.....El Son\". Los Papines are based in Cuba, not the US.
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Note added at 2004-06-03 03:25:30 (GMT)
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Thank you for the context. According to this context, the term \"son\" is a general reference to the music that was born or created in the Provincia de Oriente, primarily in the city of Santiago. \"Son\" is like a mini-genre that covers Cuban music originating in Oriente. It began as el son and then it began to branch out. The rhythms derived from the \"son\" are as follows: danzón, son montuno, guajira, mambo, and cha-cha-cha. All of these are branches of the \"son\", sometimes referred to as \"El Son de Oriente\". \"Son\" by itself does not cover all Cuban music from the entire island. The \"guaracha\" also comes for Oriente. Hope this helps.
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Note added at 2004-06-03 03:40:20 (GMT)
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I agree with your suggestion of \"The Bolero\", etc. I suggest not separating \"Son\" from \"Montuno\", insofar as \"Son Montuno\" is a very specific rhythm. The term \"Montuno\" by itself has another meaning in a different context. That happens when the lead singer (Celia Cruz, for example) is engaging in a dialogue with the \"coro\", known as the \"Diálogo Antifonal\" in Spanish and \"Call and Response Pattern\" in English. In something like this, the \"coro\" will sing the same phrase and the lead singer will give an improvised response. The arrangement may call for the \"coro\" to use two bars, and then Celia Cruz will be given two bars to respond. This goes on back and forth several times. This section is sometimes referred to as \"The Montuno\", but it is not to be confused with the Son Montuno rhythm.
Also, another note. The term \"tumbao\" appears in your text. A \"tumbao\" is defined as follows:
A tumbao is a progression played on the bass or the conga drum. So the \"tumbao del bajo\" would be a bass progression or bass riff, and the \"tumbao de la conga\" would be a conga drum progression or conga drum riff.
If you run into the word \"Guajeo\", that is a progression or riff played on the piano, violin, or saxophone.
Hope this helps. The rhythm played has no bearing on the use of \"Tumbao\" or \"Guajeo\". Hope this helps.
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Note added at 2004-06-03 03:43:18 (GMT)
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A note of caution: Be careful with the term \"salsa\". That term came out in New York City in 1973 and people began to use it as a general term. The rhythms used that are called salsa are \"La Guaracha\", \"El Guaguancó\", \"El Son Montuno\", and \"La Guajira\". All of that has been lumped together and called salsa, and it has been very confusing to say the least.
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Note added at 2004-06-03 04:08:11 (GMT)
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Lo que sea de cada quien, ¡que buena onda! Espero que mis comentarios hayan sido de utilidad para tí. La referencia de www.descarga.com es muy buena y te la recomiendo mucho. Saludos desde México, D. F.
Richard
PD: Soy originario de Los Angeles, California, donde conocí y me enamoré de esta música y aprendí a tocarla.
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Note added at 2004-06-03 18:12:34 (GMT)
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In re-reading your examples, I noted the context of the term \"tumbao\", and it looks like a \"tumbao del bajo - bass progression\", since you mentioned chordal blocks. As a serious conga and bongo drum practioner, although not on a professional basis, I found myself wondering how I would build chordal blocks in a basic \"tumbao de la conga - conga drum progression\". Hope this helps a little more. Saludos, Richard.
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Note added at 2004-06-04 02:29:43 (GMT) Post-grading
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George: I will answer this in English.
All the information I gave in my above comments come from a musician\'s perspective. They were given to me by a Cuban professional musician who had his own latin band for 12 years, and then hosted his own radio show here in Mexico where I was his weekly guest. He taught me everything I know from a musician\'s perspective. His name was Francisco \"Pancho\" Cataneo.
The author of this text does not have such a deep perspective. Technically speaking, the \"tumbao\" is the rhythmic progression played either on the bass or the conga drum.
However, when the author mentions the \"estribillo o montuno del son\", that is actually the phrase sung repetitively by the \"coro\". Although I think the author is technically off base, I think you can translate \"tumbao\" as a \"rhythmic phrase\" or \"rhythmic figure\" or \"rhythmic structure\" that is repeated without stopping.
This non-stop repetition of \"rhythmic figures\" is a fundamental component of Afro-Cuban music, and this is what each instrument does. Sometimes, a one bar phrase is used to complete your progression (tumbao, guajeo, martillo, cascarita, etc.), and a two bar phrase may be used to complete the progression. Listen to Eddie Palmieri when a horn or percussion instrument is performing a solo. He repeats his rhythmic phrase non-stop (technically speaking \"guajeo del piano - piano progression), while the soloist rides on top of that. The key to the whole thing is to play that non-stop repetitive phrase and make the \"sabor\" and/or excitement as compelling as you can for the dancer / listener, etc. I hope the terms of \"rhythmic phrase / rhythmic figure / rhythmic structure\" are helpful. Keep in touch. Saludos, Richard.
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Note added at 2004-06-04 02:42:10 (GMT) Post-grading
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George:
Me divertí enormemente participando en aras de echarte una manita. Es que cuando ví que se trataba de música cubana, ya estuvo que yo le entrara. Cuando no estoy traduciendo algún estado financiero al inglés (con un musical amenizado por Puente, Palmieri, Barretto, Santamaría, Irakere (Chucho Valdés), Van Van, Poncho Sánchez, etc.), ni con la familia, me puedes encontrar afinando mis golpes agudos (slaps) con la mano izquierda tratando de mejorar mi \"tumbao\" básico de la conga. Y que siga la rumba pa\'lante. Te mando un abrazo desde México, Richard.
| Richard Cadena
Mexico
Local time: 19:34
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12
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7 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +5 | The son, the italicize
Explanation:
would be my suggestion, although italics might not even be needed as from the context it would be clear what it is you are referring to. Quotations marks or initial capital would be my next choice. I would avoid all caps or bold type.
See if this helps http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004SCET/ref...
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Note added at 33 mins (2004-06-03 01:03:43 GMT)
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The thing is \"son\" is not so much a word left in Spanish as it is a musical style that has no translation in English, same as samba or rumba or cha-cha-cha. I believe you can get away with plain roman, as this is a specialized text and the context is obvious.
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Note added at 3 hrs 5 mins (2004-06-03 03:35:44 GMT)
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I personally would choose italics over capitalizing, and Mr. Collins agrees with me...see these entries:
Source: The Collins English Dictionary © 2000 HarperCollins Publishers:
bolero [bə\'lɛərəʊ]
noun
(plural: -ros)
1 a Spanish dance, often accompanied by the guitar and castanets, usually in triple time
2 a piece of music composed for or in the rhythm of this dance
3 [also: \'bɒlərəʊ]
a kind of short jacket not reaching the waist, with or without sleeves and open at the front: worn by men in Spain and by women elsewhere
[ETYMOLOGY: 18th Century: from Spanish; perhaps related to bola ball]
rumba, rhumba [\'rʌmbə, \'rʊm-]
noun
1 a rhythmic and syncopated Cuban dance in duple time
2 a ballroom dance derived from this
3 a piece of music composed for or in the rhythm of this dance
[ETYMOLOGY: 20th Century: from Spanish: lavish display, of uncertain origin]
cha-cha-cha [ˌtʃɑːtʃɑː\'tʃɑː], cha-cha
noun
1 a Latin-American ballroom dance with small steps and swaying hip movements
2 a piece of music composed for this dance
verb [intransitive]
3 to perform this dance
[ETYMOLOGY: 20th Century: from American (Cuban) Spanish]
| Susana Galilea
United States
Local time: 20:34
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 4
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