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YDFGE
stop vasculaire P2 gauche
Nov 23, 2019 16:07
4 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term

investisseur à passif long

French to English Bus/Financial Investment / Securities Insurance
Context: Ces obligations ont un attrait pour les investisseurs à passif long: plus de la moitié de l’encours a une maturité supérieure à 10 ans

This is from an insurance company discussing investment strategies.

Is this (les investisseurs à passif long) just a complicated way of saying 'long-term investors'? Or does the 'passif' mean they are 'passive long-term investors'? Or is it even something to do with liabilities?

Thanks
L
Proposed translations (English)
3 -2 long-term bondholders/fixed-income investors
3 +1 investor with long-term liabilities
5 -1 investors with long-term sources of funding.
4 -1 long term indebted investor
3 -2 long-term debt investor

Discussion

Steve Robbie Nov 26, 2019:
I see your point... ... and have amended my postings to endorse your suggestion below.
Daryo Nov 25, 2019:
All that is not relevant for this specific sentence which boils down to:

investing your money in a long term investement (like bonds that will be repaid in average in 10 years time) can be of interest for those who have money that will be available in the long term

nothing more specific than that - applies TO ANYONE that has some money that will be available for a long term INCLUDING those investing their own money.

for SOME investors "matching liabilities and assets" might be one of the factors to decide what to invest, but that's not the point of the ST.
Ph_B (X) Nov 25, 2019:
Matching liabilities and assets An ins. co. discussing long-term investments could be about what is called the "matching (assets) rule" in English or règle de congruence des actifs in French. Look for "matching" in this document: http://www.oecd.org/pensions/private-pensions/2401884.pdf <p>The gist is that insurers must be able to indemnify their insured at any time during the whole duration of the insured's policy. And to do so, their assets must always match their liabilities: "The identification of the risk of a mismatch between assets and liabilities... one of the most critical risks to which insurers writing long-term business are exposed to... their investment activity needs to be guided by its purpose, which is to ensure that claims can be met when they are due." (https://people.math.ethz.ch/~embrecht/ftp/SRIF2.pdf)<p>...
Such liabilities can be long-term. This is particularly true of life insurance (several decades per person) and of liability insurance. In other words, insurers exposed to long-term liabilities must invest in long-term investments legally to meet their long-term commitments. This is what I think the sentence is referring to.<p>
Francois Boye Nov 25, 2019:
@ Daryo:

All economic agents are indebted in our time. The 2008 crisis was caused by over-indebtedness and overall indebtedness in 2018 is greater than in 2008.

What does it mean? That investors, big investors, are not necessarily free from debt. On the contrary, they manage their portfolios by keeping themselves in the black. This might entail sometimes to borrow money to invest in specific, high-return assets.
Daryo Nov 24, 2019:
If you read carrefully "les investisseurs à passif long" there is only one possible meaning

"... à passif long" => dont le passif est "long" - à long terme

as ".. à passif long" qualifies "les investisseurs (NOT "les investissements"

it can only mean "investors who have a their disposal some funds for a long period of time"

@ Ana Vozone

that search proves that it's about investors who have funds available for long periods of time, who know for sure that no one is going to ask for the money they are managing to be repaid at short notice.
Wolf Draeger Nov 24, 2019:
Surrounding text @Asker, so far there are two readings of passif: the bonds investors buy, or the liabilities investors offset with bonds. Does the surrounding text help to clarify which is correct? And if insurers are the investors here?
Ana Vozone Nov 24, 2019:
Several examples of a similar expression to give a better understanding of its meaning: https://www.google.com/search?q="à passif long"&oq="à passif...

Proposed translations

-2
4 hrs
Selected

long-term bondholders/fixed-income investors

IF the investors in question are the insurance firms themselves, then I think passif refers to bonds, which are the main instrument insurers invest in.

Quora is not the most solid of refs, but see:
https://www.quora.com/What-kind-of-investments-do-insurance-...
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-insurers-tend-to-have-a-bigger-...

And though not exactly on topic, this Investopedia article mentions that insurance firms mostly invest in bonds/fixed-income:
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/120914/...
Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : it's about the sources of funding, NOT how the funds are invested.
9 hrs
disagree Steve Robbie : If the insurance companies are the investors, then the bonds will be investments on their balance sheets. This means that they (the bonds) will be actif, not passif.
22 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-1
1 hr

long term indebted investor

Debt is a liability; so long term debt = long term liability
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : "indebted investors" = investors drowning in their own debts - NOT "someone investing in other people's debts"//also "indebted investors" (those really "indebted") are certainly not going to rush to advertise the fact!
12 hrs
'passif' means that you owe money to sb else!
Something went wrong...
-2
2 hrs

long-term debt investor

I think it means investors who invest in long-term debt.

https://www.google.pt/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNRw7BDndVSN9ApMWKnAL...
Example sentence:

Indeed, as a part of the TLAC rule, Forum members are required to publicly disclose to long-term debt investors that they may bear losses i

Some long-term debt investors are shifting to equity schemes for better and tax-efficient returns.

Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : it's about the sources of funding, NOT how the funds are invested // you can disagree to your heart's content / till the cows come home / .... it WON'T change what is "les passifs" nor whose "passifs" the ST is about.
11 hrs
I disagree with you. The text syas that the bonds are an attractive investment for investors looking to invest on long term debt vs. investing on short term debt. I don't see how you cannot see this...
disagree Steve Robbie : "à passif long" means the investors HAVE long-term LIABILITIES, not that they are keen on investing in long-term debt (which would represent an asset/actif in their balance sheets). The bonds give steady income that can be matched against LT liabilities
1 day 42 mins
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+1
18 hrs

investor with long-term liabilities


About insurers as investors with long-term liabilities, and the reasons why:

"insurers can invest in long-term assets to match their long-term liabilities"
https://www.abi.org.uk/data-and-resources/tools-and-resource...

"financing long-term investment can be beneficial for inter alia life insurers (as well as pension funds) looking to match their long term liabilities with long duration assets"
http://www.oecd.org/investment/Evolution-insurer-strategies-...

"but for the purposes of this paper [Investment risk for long term investors] , the subset of investors considered will span insurers with long term liabilities"
https://www.actuaries.org.uk/system/files/field/document/Inv...
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : your explanations have nothing to do with this ST - What is relevant HERE: the funding of any potential investor (from wherever - insurance premiums, pension contributions, from any long term loan ...) will be steadily available in a long term.
9 hrs
agree GILLES MEUNIER
19 hrs
agree Michael Confais (X)
2 days 1 hr
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-1
14 hrs

investors with long-term sources of funding.

Ces obligations ont un attrait pour les investisseurs à passif long: plus de la moitié de l’encours a une maturité supérieure à 10 ans
=>
these obligations can be an attractive investment (/of interest) for those who have some long-term sources of funding

"passifs" for a business is the source of funding - where the capital comes from.

Les passifs en comptabilité
Un passif peut être défini comme un élément du patrimoine ayant une valeur économique négative pour l’entité, c’est-à-dire une obligation de l’entité à l’égard d’un tiers dont il est probable ou certain qu’elle provoquera une sortie des ressources au bénéfice de ce tiers, sans contrepartie au moins équivalente attendue de celui-ci.

Les passifs figurent dans la partie du droite du bilan, ils se composent des principaux éléments suivants :

Capitaux propres (capital, réserves…),
Dettes (financières, fournisseurs, fiscales, sociales…),
Produits constatés d’avance.
Pour aller plus loin : le passif du bilan comptable.
https://www.compta-facile.com/actifs-passifs-produits-et-cha...



Définition du passif du bilan comptable
Le passif du bilan est un élément du patrimoine ayant une valeur économique négative pour l’entité. Il s’agit d’une obligation de l’entité à l’égard d’un tiers dont il est probable ou certain qu’elle provoquera une sortie des ressources au bénéfice de ce tiers, sans contrepartie au moins équivalente.

Le passif occupe la partie droite du tableau de bilan. Il est constitué des capitaux propres et du passif externe. Chaque partie est détaillée ci-dessous ...
https://www.compta-facile.com/le-passif-du-bilan-comptable/

The rationale: you don't make long term investments with money borrowed on short-term arrangements - basic rule that sunk few banks ...

or put it another way

for those who know for sure that the money they have available will still be available to them for years to some. investing that money in long-term bonds can be of interest.


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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2019-11-24 21:45:01 GMT)
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C) Pourquoi des dettes circulantes peuvent-elles constituer une ressource stable ?

 Délais de paiement consentis aux clients + avances consenties par les fournisseurs => fonds permanent de dettes constituant une ressource permanente
 Besoins de financement stables = Actifs longs + Fonds permanents d’actifs courts renouvelés
Ressources de financement stables = Passifs longs + Fonds permanent de passifs courts renouvelés


http://coursedc.free.fr/4eme Annee/4A Finance/Diagnostic fin... page 2

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Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2019-11-25 13:29:08 GMT)
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When you have money available to invest in something, that money becomes a "source of funding", no matter if that money was borrowed (through ANY type of contract) or your own money.

Peer comment(s):
disagree Francois Boye : passif = liabilities in French accounting
10 hrs
So?
agree Steve Robbie : I have deleted my previous comment (to which you replied below) and changed this comment from neutral to "agree".
13 hrs
Thanks!
disagree GILLES MEUNIER : liabilities
23 hrs
the usual "constructive contribution" ...
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