Nov 22, 2019 10:52
4 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
Fast and Accurate
Native in: English
Works in: Russian to English, French to English, Italian to English, and 1 more.
baptiser
French to English
Art/Literary
Philosophy
From a philosophy text on Cudworth, Locke, and Spinoza:
Cette contingence de la vie, du mouvement et de la conscience autorise la conception d’un Dieu qui apporte à la matière ce qui lui fait défaut. Descartes a ***baptisé*** Démocrite, mais il est impossible de ***baptiser*** Straton (ou Spinoza) qui font de la matière une vie en puissance.
Does "baptiser" have a figurative meaning besides "naming/dubbing"? I'm at a loss.
Cette contingence de la vie, du mouvement et de la conscience autorise la conception d’un Dieu qui apporte à la matière ce qui lui fait défaut. Descartes a ***baptisé*** Démocrite, mais il est impossible de ***baptiser*** Straton (ou Spinoza) qui font de la matière une vie en puissance.
Does "baptiser" have a figurative meaning besides "naming/dubbing"? I'm at a loss.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 2 +2 | [sidestep the pun] acknowledge; recognize |
Wolf Draeger
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| 3 +1 | praise |
SafeTex
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| 3 | sanctify |
SafeTex
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| 3 | anoint |
Mpoma
|
Proposed translations
+2
1 day 5 hrs
Wolf Draeger
South Africa
South Africa
Native in English
Specializes in field
South Africa
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
[sidestep the pun] acknowledge; recognize
After a very cursory skimming of Descartes, Democritus, Strato & Spinoza in a couple of dictionaries and encyclopedias of philosophy, I can't find any discussion of the extent to which Descartes engaged with Democritus and Strato other than naming a section of his notebook after the former (see SEP ref entry).
'Descartes opened a section in his notebook entitled “Democritica”, in honor of the ancient atomist Democritus.'
In fact, from what I can tell, Descartes' conception of matter ends up diverging quite a bit from Democritus' in terms of void and indivisibility. They agree on atoms as the building blocks of matter but not on their properties (hence democritica, i.e. giving Democritus credit for the idea but criticizing his elaboration of it?).
So I'm unsure what point the writer is trying to make and why he brings Democritus and Strato into it. The only reason I can think of for baptiser is in reference to the notebook. Perhaps he was a sports journalist in a previous life and couldn't resist the pun...
The pun is not exactly dazzling (as you say, a bit jarring, rather), and unless I'm missing something (always a strong possibility), I think it can be safely discarded in translation. The meaning as I understand it then is that Descartes acknowledges Democritus but not Strato (whom he may or may not have read or discussed) or Spinoza (whom he couldn't have read and probably didn't even know).
To cut a long story short, I would sidestep the allusion altogether and use "acknowledge" or "recognize" or something to that effect.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation :-) Hope it helps!
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2019-11-23 16:26:53 GMT)
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Forgot to add links:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/descartes/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/democritus/#6
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strato_of_Lampsacus
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atomism-ancient/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cambridge-platonists/#Ral...
'Descartes opened a section in his notebook entitled “Democritica”, in honor of the ancient atomist Democritus.'
In fact, from what I can tell, Descartes' conception of matter ends up diverging quite a bit from Democritus' in terms of void and indivisibility. They agree on atoms as the building blocks of matter but not on their properties (hence democritica, i.e. giving Democritus credit for the idea but criticizing his elaboration of it?).
So I'm unsure what point the writer is trying to make and why he brings Democritus and Strato into it. The only reason I can think of for baptiser is in reference to the notebook. Perhaps he was a sports journalist in a previous life and couldn't resist the pun...
The pun is not exactly dazzling (as you say, a bit jarring, rather), and unless I'm missing something (always a strong possibility), I think it can be safely discarded in translation. The meaning as I understand it then is that Descartes acknowledges Democritus but not Strato (whom he may or may not have read or discussed) or Spinoza (whom he couldn't have read and probably didn't even know).
To cut a long story short, I would sidestep the allusion altogether and use "acknowledge" or "recognize" or something to that effect.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation :-) Hope it helps!
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2019-11-23 16:26:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Forgot to add links:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/descartes/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/democritus/#6
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strato_of_Lampsacus
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atomism-ancient/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cambridge-platonists/#Ral...
Example sentence:
Descartes acknowledges Democritus but the same cannot be said of Strato (or Spinoza) who attribute soul to matter.
Descartes recognizes Democritus but the same cannot be said of Strato (or Spinoza) who imbue matter with life force.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Cyril Tollari
1 day 5 hrs
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Ta!
|
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| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: recognise. "Baptise" seems to be about accepting (some of) the ideas of Democritus (but not of other two)
1 day 18 hrs
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Ta!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
2 hrs
sanctify
Hello
If I've understood the text correctly, some see God in matter while other don't. if God is in matter, then it is sacred (godlike) so I think the verb should be sanctify
Yes, I realize that sanctify is followed by the names of people but what is important is the ideas of these people about matter and ultimately the matter itself. So sanctifying Democrite is tantamount to sanctifying his ideas and matter itself
But it's also possible that I'm way off the mark
If I've understood the text correctly, some see God in matter while other don't. if God is in matter, then it is sacred (godlike) so I think the verb should be sanctify
Yes, I realize that sanctify is followed by the names of people but what is important is the ideas of these people about matter and ultimately the matter itself. So sanctifying Democrite is tantamount to sanctifying his ideas and matter itself
But it's also possible that I'm way off the mark
1 hr
anoint
seems to fit the context... though I'm no expert!
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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-11-22 14:19:44 GMT)
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NB I should make clear that my assumption is that the author is using the word "baptiser" ironically, in a tongue-in-cheek way. I can't know this from the excerpt. Maybe tatyana000 can provide more enlightenment and/or more context... ?
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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-11-22 14:19:44 GMT)
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NB I should make clear that my assumption is that the author is using the word "baptiser" ironically, in a tongue-in-cheek way. I can't know this from the excerpt. Maybe tatyana000 can provide more enlightenment and/or more context... ?
+1
2 days 12 hrs
praise
My second go at this. Hope no one minds.
tried to find a verb with religious connotations but which could also be used to endorse the ideas of someone else
tried to find a verb with religious connotations but which could also be used to endorse the ideas of someone else
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Cyril Tollari
: praised the name of Democritus?
1 day 13 hrs
|
|
thanks. yes to your remark or perhaps even "praises the work/standpoint of Democritus"
|
Reference comments
30 mins
Reference:
good source
Ever heard of Trésor de la Langue Française informatisé ?
Here's the entry for "baptiser":
http://stella.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8...
There are quite a few possiblities there... bearing in mind that a quick look at Wikip reveals that Descartes was something of a fan of Democritus.
Seems to be an unusual usage of "baptiser", to me.
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Note added at 31 mins (2019-11-22 11:23:55 GMT)
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Grrr, links don't seem to work... it's http://stella.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8...
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Note added at 33 mins (2019-11-22 11:25:28 GMT)
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Grrr, neither does that: enter the term "baptiser" here: http://stella.atilf.fr/
Here's the entry for "baptiser":
http://stella.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8...
There are quite a few possiblities there... bearing in mind that a quick look at Wikip reveals that Descartes was something of a fan of Democritus.
Seems to be an unusual usage of "baptiser", to me.
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Note added at 31 mins (2019-11-22 11:23:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Grrr, links don't seem to work... it's http://stella.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 33 mins (2019-11-22 11:25:28 GMT)
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Grrr, neither does that: enter the term "baptiser" here: http://stella.atilf.fr/
Note from asker:
| Thank you for this link. I did look up "baptiser" here (https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/baptiser, which seems to produce the same entries as your link) before posting this question. Way down on the list are watering down and celebrating, but they seemed to be antiquated. Anyway, it's a jarring use of "baptiser" and I feel like there's some reference or joke I'm missing. |
3 hrs
Wolf Draeger
South Africa
South Africa
Native in English
Specializes in field
South Africa
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Reference:
Descartes names his baby Democritus
The right translation may require digging a bit into the philosophy of Descartes, Strato and Spinoza, so I'm posting this as a reference before mulling an answer.
According to the online treasure that is the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
'Since antiquity, mathematics had been applied to various physical subject matters, in optics, astronomy, mechanics [...] Descartes brought to this work a commitment to atoms as the basic constituents of matter; as had ancient atomists, [...] attributed not only size, shape, and motion but also weight to those atoms. Descartes opened a section in his notebook entitled “Democritica”, in honor of the ancient atomist Democritus.'
So the immediate sense here of baptiser does seem to be "to name", though it smells very strongly of a play on words ("admit", "enrol", "bless", "approve of"). Perhaps a nod to Descartes' training in and rejection of scholasticism?
Descartes is famous for claiming to have turfed out the old Aristotelian scholastic approach and basically reinvented philosophy from scratch, but obviously he didn't chuck everything out and still owed much to ancient atomists.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-11-22 14:49:40 GMT)
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Btw, Spinoza (1632-77) knew about and read Descarte (1596-1650) but not vice versa, which is why the former is "not baptized" in brackets, i.e. according to the writer, not Descartes himself.
And here's an interesting paragraph from the Wikipedia article on Strato:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strato_of_Lampsacus
'However, in the 17th century, [Strato's] name suddenly became famous due to the supposed similarities between his system and the pantheistic views of Spinoza. In his 1678 attack on atheism, Ralph Cudworth designated Strato's system as one of four types of atheism and in doing so, coined the term hylozoism to describe any system where primitive matter is endowed with a life force. [...] In his Continuation des Pensées diverses, published in 1705, Stratonism became the most important ancient equivalent of Spinozism.'
According to the online treasure that is the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
'Since antiquity, mathematics had been applied to various physical subject matters, in optics, astronomy, mechanics [...] Descartes brought to this work a commitment to atoms as the basic constituents of matter; as had ancient atomists, [...] attributed not only size, shape, and motion but also weight to those atoms. Descartes opened a section in his notebook entitled “Democritica”, in honor of the ancient atomist Democritus.'
So the immediate sense here of baptiser does seem to be "to name", though it smells very strongly of a play on words ("admit", "enrol", "bless", "approve of"). Perhaps a nod to Descartes' training in and rejection of scholasticism?
Descartes is famous for claiming to have turfed out the old Aristotelian scholastic approach and basically reinvented philosophy from scratch, but obviously he didn't chuck everything out and still owed much to ancient atomists.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2019-11-22 14:49:40 GMT)
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Btw, Spinoza (1632-77) knew about and read Descarte (1596-1650) but not vice versa, which is why the former is "not baptized" in brackets, i.e. according to the writer, not Descartes himself.
And here's an interesting paragraph from the Wikipedia article on Strato:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strato_of_Lampsacus
'However, in the 17th century, [Strato's] name suddenly became famous due to the supposed similarities between his system and the pantheistic views of Spinoza. In his 1678 attack on atheism, Ralph Cudworth designated Strato's system as one of four types of atheism and in doing so, coined the term hylozoism to describe any system where primitive matter is endowed with a life force. [...] In his Continuation des Pensées diverses, published in 1705, Stratonism became the most important ancient equivalent of Spinozism.'
Reference:
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Cyril Tollari
4 hrs
|
| agree |
Stephanie Benoist
10 hrs
|
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: yes, important to actually look at the philosophers named (and that IS the context after all)
2 days 9 hrs
|
Discussion