Greek term
"...αχαμνός σαν κουλούρι χωρίς σουσάμι..."
Nov 18, 2012 17:17: Angeliki Papadopoulou changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"
PRO (3): Philip Lees, Eleni Bouchli, Angeliki Papadopoulou
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Proposed translations
pale and skinny as an unbaked baguette
| neutral |
Eleni Bouchli
: I liked your translation but I have some considerations about "baguette".
1 hr
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| neutral |
transphy
: Phil, pretzl, did not come to mind ???:( :(
2 hrs
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| agree |
Dave Bindon
: I like this solution a lot (unless, as you implied in your comment, the context indicates that one should or could stay more faithful to the source text).
4 hrs
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thanks dave
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Greece
Medical Translations | MD, MSc, PhD
Native in: Greek (Variant: Modern) 
Works in: English to Greek, Greek
skinny like a stick / a twig / a beanpole
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/twig
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Note added at 1 hr (2012-11-18 16:08:13 GMT)
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"skinny like a plucked bird"
http://www.google.gr/search?hl=el&rlz=1C1CHMO_elGR485GR485&q...
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Note added at 1 hr (2012-11-18 16:09:32 GMT)
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"skinny like a plucked chicken"
(..pale and) skinny as a fiddle stick
A very common expression when somebody is very slim.
| neutral |
Philip Lees
: Not common where I grew up, I'm afraid, though "fiddlesticks" is an old exclamation meaning "nonsense!".
5 hrs
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I am stunned!!! An Englishman who has not heard of 'as skinny as a fiddle stick!! Yes, I have heard of 'fiddlesticks', totally different and is the expression for what is written above. Have you grown in England, yourself?? or are you taking the mick.?
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Greece
Αγγλικά σαν τη μητρική μου γλώσσα
Native in: Greek 
, English
Works in: English to Greek, Greek to English
"...pale and thin like a bread stick..."
n.b. the word "pale" is not in your question, but it is in the context you give
Cyprus
Validated translations MAPI Institute
Native in: English , Greek
Works in: English to Greek, Greek to English
like a tit in a trance
United Kingdom
The word is my oyster
Native in: Greek
Works in: English to Greek, Greek to English, Greek
pale and scrawny like a corncob without its kernels
| neutral |
transphy
: Oh, yes!!! where did you dish this one out of, Nick?
19 mins
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Well, I thought I had to internationalize "koulouri" and keep "pale" in play.
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| agree |
Nadia-Anastasia Fahmi
4 days
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Greece
Certified, Reliable & Meticulous
Native in: Greek (Variant: Modern)
Works in: English to Greek, Greek to English, French to Greek, and 1 more.
pale and lean as bread without salt
Salt is a very useful ingredient in cooking; without it always something is missing...
Discussion
Mr Lees your dilemma is very interesting and raises many questions on how much freedom a translator truly has to embellish a text.
Mr Lingris imagine this that we now think of bad writing being recognized as a masterpiece after the author's death! You never know with literature critics!
Also I have another idea about what the author wants to tell us:
the posture of the character's body being coiled=κουλουριασμένο!
Maybe the author is sarcastic after all and wants to make his readers laugh!
My view is that with technical texts, where the content is more important than the style, it's OK to improve the text. However, with fiction, essays, or other "creative" writing, where the style is an important part of the message, we should try and produce something that's at the same linguistic level as the original, good or bad.
In the present case, there seems to be a consensus that the "koulouri" simile is rather clunky and ineffective, so perhaps the English translation of it should be clunky and ineffective, too.
Αχ! φτάνει. Να παραδεχθώ όμως πως, εγώ τουλάχιστο, γέλασα αρκετά από αυτή τη 'διατριβή' της φράσις του κουλουριού. Καλή σας μέρα όλους.
When is this story going to close???!!!!
In addition "κουλούρι χωρίς σουσάμι" is an unrealistic exaggerated statement because no Greek can imagine that. All "koulouri" have sesame! So in this way the author wants to indicate that an obvious ingredient or trait is missing from his character...
Καθαρό 'κουλουράκι'! Εύρηκα! Εύρηκα!!!
You see, NOBODY noticed!!!
It remains for me to go around Golders Green and Clapton to look for a 'twisted' pretzl. It beggars belief!!
Does the surrounding text have more food similes or metaphors? What is the general tone of the piece? One sentence isn't enough to get a feel of the language being used here.
We seem to be looking for a metaphor for something skinny, limp and lacking in colour. Here are some more ideas (all food based, and borrowing some ideas from other contributors):
- a stalk of rotting asparagus
- a drowned sausage
- a soggy bread stick
- the plucked neck of a spavined octogenarian ostrich (with apologies to P.G. Wodehouse RIP)
And yes, a tit is a small bird.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_(bird)
What fun!
'pretzl' IS bread. 'Pretzl' IS a '' κουλούρι". 'Pretzl' IS Pale. 'Pretzl' IS without
'σουσάμι'.
Personally, however, I doubt if its use would be understood by English people (who don't know what '' κουλούρι" is or how it looks).
By the way, I have had a good laugh over this phrases.
Maybe the second option is more safe, more English-like, but the first one with the idea of bread holds another powerful charm because its more difficult to translate.
AS IS VERY, VERY KOSHER!!!!:((
Transphy all the translations are really inventive!
''scrawny like a corncob without its kernels'', is as beautiful.
OH, I had to laugh with this one!!!**like a tit in a trance**
Το να πεις 'skinny as a fiddle stick' ή 'skinny as an unbaked baguette'
ή 'skinny like α beanpole' είναι εξ' ίσου εκφραστικά στα Αγγλικά όσο το
Ελληνικό ' κουλούρι χωρίς σουσάμι'. Τι ωραία όλα!!!!!
Secondly the writer is Greek and for me the Greek style must be preserved. We would not turn Seferis or Elytis into Englishmen, would we?
Secondly, let's take a look to the meaning of αχαμνος
αχαμνός -ή -ό [axamnós] Ε1 : (λογοτ., λαϊκότρ.) 1α. (για άνθρωπο, ζώο ή μέλος του σώματος) ισχνός1, λιπόσαρκος, αδύνατος: Είναι ~ από φυσικού του / από την αρρώστια. || (για φυτό) που δεν αναπτύχτηκε κανονικά. β. αδύνατος ή αδύναμος: Είναι λιγάκι ~ και δεν αντέχει πολύ.
2. για ύλη της οποίας η σύνθεση είναι περισσότερο μαλακή από όσο θα έπρεπε: Aχαμνό ζυμάρι / κερί. αχαμνούτσικος -η -ο YΠΟKΟΡ. αχαμνούλης -α -ικο YΠΟKΟΡ.
As you can see it refers to a person who is skinny without doubt, but also soft meaning timid, courageless or even a coward...so it is a great challenge to translate all this in English.
Thirdly, we have the word κουλούρι which for the Greeks is a cultural culinary product (if we can describe it as such).
Philip although I liked your translation I would say that baguette has French or European connotations, not Greek.