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Glossary entry

Italian term or phrase:

con quello che è stato poi

English translation:

what Rome was to become

Added to glossary by Lara Barnett
Jul 26, 2019 15:36
4 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Italian term

con quello che è stato poi

Italian to English Social Sciences Cinema, Film, TV, Drama Making of a historic film
This is a docu. about the making of a film about an ancient king and his brother. This ending bit has thrown me.

"Mi sembrava interessante provare a mettere in rapporto quell’emotività, quel sentimento importante che due fratelli, semmai fossero esistiti, sicuramente avrebbero avuto, con quello che è stato poi l’impero, Roma.

I have tried splitting this up into two sentences, so maybe that is why I am thrown, or maybe I just don't get it....!

"It seemed to me an interesting idea to try to convey that emotion, that deep sentiment between two brothers. If they did exist, they surely would have felt this towards the events of, what was then, the Roman empire.
Proposed translations (English)
1 would have becone
4 with what later became
Change log

Jul 26, 2019 18:45: Lara Barnett changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Social Sciences"

Discussion

Lara Barnett (asker) Jul 28, 2019:
@ Michele "soon" in the future-past does mean "poi" in the sense of "At a later date..."

"A city built from fear, WAS SOON TO BE HERALDED as the most dazzlingly beautiful city in the world. While the Florentines were regarded as great thinkers, the Venetians should be ...."
https://www.tours-italy.com/discover-your-italy/venice-trave...
Michele Fauble Jul 28, 2019:
Yes, or maybe ‘eventually’, if you don’t like ‘later’.
Michele Fauble Jul 28, 2019:
A lot of history happened in those 700 years. Monarchy, Republic, then Empire. To anyone at all familiar with the history of Rome, “soon”, looking forward from the time of Romulus and Remus, just doesn’t sound right, and it’s not in the source text.
Lara Barnett (asker) Jul 28, 2019:
@ Michele In our context of 2019, 700 years post this era is not much in terms of time. "later" makes sense, but still sounds a bit clumsy to me. The other alternatives would be:
"the empire that Rome would UTLTIMATELY (or) SUBJSEQUENTLY become".
Michele Fauble Jul 27, 2019:
Soon? Rome did not become an empire until almost 700 years after the time of Romulus and Remus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus
Lara Barnett (asker) Jul 27, 2019:
Maybe It seemed to me an interesting idea to show the correlation with the bond, that deep sentiment between two brothers, if indeed they existed, with the empire that Rome would soon to become.
Lara Barnett (asker) Jul 26, 2019:
@ Michele I think her structuring and grammar is difficult, but I have got this now, following our conversation:
"It seemed to me an interesting idea to try to contrast that emotion, that deep sentiment between two brothers, if indeed they existed, within the context of what Rome was to become. "
You think "later became" is better ?
Michele Fauble Jul 26, 2019:
Your author is confusing you, in this and in previous questions, with incorrect comma usage.

Proposed translations

27 mins
Selected

would have becone

credo che intenda dire che sarebbe stato bello mettere in relazione il sentimento di due fratelli con quella che poi è diventata Roma (impero romano) nel senso per vedere se il sentimento era più forte del potere che ha ottenuto l'impero e quindi se avrebbe resistito o si sarebbe spezzato o come si sarebbe evoluto. quindi penso andrebbe tradotto come "with what rome would have became later" o varianti sul genere

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Note added at 43 mins (2019-07-26 16:20:15 GMT)
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Mi sembrava interessante provare a mettere in rapporto quell’emotività, quel sentimento importante che due fratelli, semmai fossero esistiti, sicuramente avrebbero avuto, con quello che è stato poi l’impero, Roma.

with what rome would have became later = con quello che è stato poi l'impero, roma

"With" connects with "quell'emotività, quel sentimento"



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Note added at 1 hr (2019-07-26 17:16:08 GMT)
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Ok, I'll try to explain again.

The author would have really liked to investigate the emotions between the two brother with the "colossus" Rome became. Meaning...two brothers have special feelings, if you hqve a brother you know this, but what would happen if suddenly you or you brother have access to money and power? Envy and anger and willing for power can destroy your brotherhood. This is what the author would have liked to study/investigate.

I said that syntactically "with" connects to "emotion", you cannot separate the two sentences like you did.

I hope it's clearer now. Let me know.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-07-26 18:10:56 GMT)
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I'm sorry Lara, I don't want to be rude, but do you know something about the history of Rome and how it was born? Your documentary is clearly talking about Romolo e Remo and how Rome was founded and what a huge empire it became. The author would have liked to know if the relationship between the brothers would have resisted knowing what a huge empire Rome would have become in the centuries, but he cannot because Romolo and Remo founded the city and at that point of history they don't know that Rome would have become an empire. Is it clear now?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus

It is a legend so we don't know everything.



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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-07-26 18:12:50 GMT)
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The sentence is "what (ROME) would have become later" and you must put it exactly where it is in italian, at the end of the sentence.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-07-26 18:17:46 GMT)
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What Rome would have become later (meaning...an empire with all its consequences).

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-07-26 18:56:05 GMT)
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My job was to let you understand the syntax and the meaning, you're the mothertongue here. If you understood what I meant, rephrase it as you like.

For me it's pretty clear what I wrote in english, BUT I'll translate the entire sentence for you maybe it will help you...

Mi sembrava interessante provare a mettere in rapporto quell’emotività, quel sentimento importante che due fratelli, semmai fossero esistiti, sicuramente avrebbero avuto, con quello che è stato poi l’impero, Roma.

[ I found interesting to try to relate that emotionality, (that important feeling that two brothers, if they ever existed, would have had for sure,) with what Rome would have become later]

I hope that is clearer with the brakets. Otherwise sorry but I did my best to try to explain this to you.


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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-07-26 19:00:23 GMT)
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[ I found interesting to try to relate that emotionality, (that important feeling that two brothers, if they ever existed, would have had for sure,) with how rome became when it developed in an empire]

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-07-26 19:03:34 GMT)
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I mean "...to look at this relationship, within the context of Rome, and
what it would have been the moment rome was not a small city anymore but a great empire"



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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-07-26 19:09:15 GMT)
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I don't Think it's "in contrast", there is a "connection" "relation" between the two things

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-07-26 19:30:32 GMT)
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It's not a comparison, it's putting two things in relation to each other to see how they react to each other

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Note added at 15 hrs (2019-07-27 07:24:14 GMT)
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Indeed it's NOT a city related to the bothers, but it's the concept of rome related to a feeling ( so not a person).....

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Note added at 18 hrs (2019-07-27 09:40:30 GMT)
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Lara, you're the mothertongue here. But regarding relate here's the definition by the collins dictionary

The way that two things relate, or the way that one thing relates to another, is the sort of connection that exists between them.

And this definition applies perfectly to this sentence. Anyway you're the translator, you're the mothertongue, this is not my job. I tried to help you understand the meaning in italian as i am the italian mothertongue here. What can i add more? Do as you want.

Best regards
Note from asker:
So where would you put "with what Rome would have become later"? And what does "with" connect to?
But you cannot say that "rome would have become this emotion", I don't understand what you mean.
I see what you mean, but I do not understand "what would have become later", it does not mean anything, and even if it was restructured you did not say where it fits in.
OF course I know the history behind this film, what I am saying is that I do not understand your use of English in your suggestion. I am talking about how we would phrase this grammatically.
"What Rome would have become later" means nothing (in English), even int he context, so you may need to restructure that if you want me to understand it. It also may need restructuring to fit in with my own phrasing. Italian and English paraphrasing often does not work in the same way.
I understand the meaning, I am just looking for a good way to phrase this in English. What I mean is that I do not understand your suggestion, and I wanted you to rephrase this to make it clearer.
You mean "...to look at this relationship, within the context of Rome, and what it was to eventually become. " ??
Yes, I think "contrast against" (rather than relate) is what you mean to say. See discussion box. Thank you.
"Compare this to...what the empire would later become, Rome."
But you cannot say that in English regarding an object and a person, the city cannot be said to relate to you,
In English, comparing or contrasting is also a way of seeing how to things correspond.
I know what it is, I meant that we cannot use those words to describe this. In English we would say correspond compare or contrast, which actually have very different meanings/uses from the Italian versions of these words (I.e. false friends)..
Thank you. You have been helpful. You are correct about the meaning of relate, but maybe its just the word-phrasing that sounded odd. But of course you have helped.
What I mean is, regardless of the meaning of "relate", we could not really say "the way this relationship and the future of Rome (or whatever) relate to each other", that is why I think contrast or correspond might be better, but in English it still holds the same idea.
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2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
3 hrs

with what later became

One way of expressing it.
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