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  3. Business/Commerce (general)

de manera que se defina

English translation: specifying that...

21:26 Jan 16, 2024
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Business/Commerce (general) / Minutes of meeting
Spanish term or phrase: de manera que se defina
Hola por segunda vez en el día,

Esta vez estoy trabajando en la traducción de las actas de una reunión y no estoy muy seguro de cómo traducir una expresión. A continuación, un extracto del texto:

Posteriormente, el pleno debatió la propuesta y el señor Juan Perez, representante de la compañía Jing-Sung S.A. presentó una enmienda a la enmienda que consistió en insertar en el numeral 1 del nuevo artículo 15 la palabra “presencial” de manera que se defina que es causal para perder la categoría de miembro la ausencia en tres reuniones presenciales consecutivas.

Creo que para que tenga sentido en inglés tendría que invertir un poco el orden de esta oración.
Manuel Aburto
Nicaragua
Local time: 02:02
English translation:specifying that...
Explanation:
...individuals will cease to be members if they are absent from three consecutive in-person meetings.
Selected response from:

philgoddard
United States
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +8specifying that...
philgoddard
4 +5which would establish that
Edward Tully
4as defined; in such way as is defined
Adrian MM.


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +8
specifying that...


Explanation:
...individuals will cease to be members if they are absent from three consecutive in-person meetings.

philgoddard
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 298
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Heather Oland
6 mins
agree  Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
58 mins
agree  Joaquín Carrillo Bascary
1 hr
agree  neilmac
11 hrs
agree  Marie Wilson
11 hrs
agree  Carina Mariani
13 hrs
agree  AllegroTrans: Yes, "definar" almost invariably means "specify" when used in this way
15 hrs
agree  Andrew Bramhall: Your grammar is fine, 'will/shall', ET's comments re your grammar not valid, although his suggestion works.// Brevity is the soul of wit.
20 hrs
  -> Thanks! Yes, his suggestion does work, but it's twice as long as mine.
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
as defined; in such way as is defined


Explanation:
que es causal ... meaning that it is a ground.

qhe se deina : subjunctive mood, so ... such as (may) be defined


    Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/law-general/209...
    Reference: http://es.bab.la/diccionario/ingles-espanol/as-defined
Adrian MM.
Austria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: "definar" is a verb used in numerous situations where in English we use "specify"; literal doesn't always produce the best translation and this is such a case
1 hr
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30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
which would establish that


Explanation:
I think it's best to use the conditional given the subjunctive used in the original, and "would be grounds" given the fact that the records/minutes of meetings are reported in the past tense.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2024-01-17 20:56:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I prefer my suggestion because it's clearer about the proposed amendment and its possible consequences and because it follows standard reported speech rules. Phil's 'specifying that' option is fine, but his continuation of the sentence is incorrect - 'will cease to be members' should be 'WOULD cease to be members' as the entire text needs to be translated as reported speech.

Edward Tully
Local time: 10:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 609

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jennifer Levey
2 hrs
  -> Many thanks! ;-)
agree  neilmac
11 hrs
  -> Many thanks Neil! ;-)
agree  liz askew
11 hrs
  -> Many thanks! ;-)
neutral  AllegroTrans: The subjunctive doesn't demand the conditional tense; this can be perfectly constructed using the present as shown by Phil
20 hrs
  -> Correct, I was just offering another option.
agree  Andrew Bramhall: "qhe se deina", ooof (AMM); and PG's comment below is absolutely correct.// Are they, are they really?
20 hrs
  -> Many thanks!//Afraid not, the grammatical rules of reported speech are quite clear.
neutral  philgoddard: My grammar is perfectly correct, thank you very much. If they fail to attend three meetings after this amendment is introduced, they WILL be kicked out.
1 day 9 hrs
  -> No it's not - the translation is reporting what was said so would be in the past tense, with proposals/amendments translated using would.
agree  Yvonne Gallagher: I agree that reported speech is better here, and yes, the rules are clear
1 day 17 hrs
  -> Many thanks Yvonne! ;-)
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