cinefil Aug 28, 2012:

Lara-san, Thank you for not neglecting our comments.

Lara Silbert (asker) Aug 28, 2012:

I've heard the term "asked to resign" in business contexts before, so I feel that for a native English speaker this would convey the meaning and so hopefully the glossary entry could be useful to other translators in the future (I'm not sure that I would see it phrased that way in a legal document, but hopefully a translator would think to rephrase it appropriately). I don't think there's a "standard" translation for this term, so I've decided that leaving the glossary entry as it is rather than deleting it will hopefully be useful for others who want to understand this term: however, anyone who feels that it could be phrased better is more than welcome to put another glossary entry in (as jgraves mentioned, multiple translations of the same term are pretty common in dictionaries), but I feel "asking for one's resignation" conveys the meaning well. I hope that's fair.

MariyaN (X) Aug 28, 2012:

I think, Cinefilさん is against translating a noun by a verb and adding such a translation to a public glossary. I sincerely believe that no respected dictionary does that. No-one objects the asker's being entitled to choose the answer she deems most appropriate for her translation, but contributing to a public glossary is different, it's a much more responsible task.

Marc Brunet Aug 28, 2012:

I take all your points regarding the most suitable style/ expression for the document specified. I failed to consider this aspect, as my entry shows. 2 more points: A)does one actually "ask" to resign, or just do it and "give notice of" one's resignation, whether the management likes it or not?. B) David Patrick's "resignation by request" should not be felt as ambiguous since, according to the assumption on which query A is based, such a request can only come from the management. Yet, such ambiguity does not disappear completely. However, when used in a briefing or induction document for employees, this is just what is needed to take the hard edge out of a sensitive topic ("resignation by management request" would be as dysphoric as "forced resignation".)

jgraves Aug 28, 2012:

For a legal document, Helen's "Forced resignation" would probably be the best technical term. However, for a list item in a document explaining regulations to employees (the context given by the asker), my suggestion (or David Patrick's "resignation request") most reliably translates/conveys meaning. "Resignation under instruction" suggested by MariyaN (and copied by Cinefil several hours later) appears only in online JE dictionaries and not in any actual target language documents that I could find in a quick search, making it unsatisfactory quality for anything but machine translation. Most respectable dictionaries offer multiple translations as well as meaningful explanations and examples (sometimes even pictures) for a given term, so Cinefil's protest doesn't even make sense to me.

Marc Brunet Aug 28, 2012:

I agree. That was an unfortunate wording and I am as much at fault as the proposer for having supported it too hastily.

cinefil Aug 28, 2012:

'Ask for one's resignation' is one of the ways to explain 論旨退職, not translation of it. I don't think that 'Ask for one's resignation' appears in a list of possible disciplinary actions, in a employment regulations document.

Marc Brunet Aug 28, 2012:

True, Jgraves' actual wording was ambiguous, and I should have noticed it, but his explanation was very clear and that's what I focused on. (This is what happens to all of us when we upload our ideas in a rush, and we should learn from that, definitely.)
"asking someone for his/her resignation" or "being asked to resign", is what Jgraves meant, though, I don't doubt it.

cinefil Aug 28, 2012:

Ask for one's resignationは、退職を要求する、ということで「論旨退職」ではありませんのでglossaryに載せるのは反対です。