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Gruben-Geschirrtücher
Sep 19, 2013 14:08
10 yrs ago
German term

Kiezkneipe & Kosmopolitanismus, Hipster & Icke

German to English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Text about Berlin
This is from a text where a business leader is setting out what he loves about Berlin. For him it's all about contradictions and "&"s.

So the "&" have to stay in the translation. I know what the words mean, but how to convey them so succinctly in English? Does anybody have any inspiration?? Thank you!

"Berlin ist für mich die faszinierendste Stadt Deutschlands. Es ist die deutsche Stadt, die sich am besten durch ihre Vielseitigkeit, durch das Leitmotiv des „&“, erschließt. Berlin hat kein Zentrum, hat keinen dominanten Wirtschaftszweig. Es ist Ost & West, **Kiezkneipe & Kosmopolitanismus, Hippster & Icke,** Schwaben- & Hamburgerüberflutet, Philharmonie & Panoramabar, Hausbesetzer & Kanzlerheimat. Berlin ist groß genug für alle. Berlin ist groß genug für alle Träume."
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 corner pubs and cosmopolitanism, hipsters and true Berliners
3 Archetypal pubs & cosmopolitan flair, hipsters & Berliner tongue
2 small neighborhood pubs (see Explanation
3 -1 pub in the ‘hood & cosmo vibe; hipster style & Berlin gob

Discussion

Anne Schulz Sep 20, 2013:
Interesting comments about ampersand – I have always considered it to be a typical English habit which has entered German "prose" as an Anglicism only :-)
oa_xxx (X) Sep 19, 2013:
Schwaben- & Hamburgerüberflutet is the hardest one imo!! Swabians wont mean much to people who dont know Germany, and while people will of course generally know Hamburg, the connotations wont be clear without adding something... and that could of course get very long winded - maybe provincial?
Helen Shiner Sep 19, 2013:
@Rachel Might perhaps be worth telling the client that it's not great stylistically in EN, but I see the problem if it's a design feature!!
Rachel Ward (asker) Sep 19, 2013:
Helen Not in so many words, but it features in the text and on the cover so I'm guessing it's kind of important.
Helen Shiner Sep 19, 2013:
@Michael 'the Berliner tongue' is of course different to 'Berliner tongue'. Archetypal is a bit Jungian.
Helen Shiner Sep 19, 2013:
@Rachel Is that a directive from the client? I just wonder, if it isn't, whether the same idea can be conveyed in other ways. But you know your context better than us obviously.
Rachel Ward (asker) Sep 19, 2013:
Ampersands Sloppy or not, the ampersands have to stay. The author uses them throughout the text as a symbol of contradictions, diversity, unity etc.
mill2 Sep 19, 2013:
As a Berliner I agree about it being ennervating! But it's not untranslatable - I'm sure you can come up with something about the pub round the corner & cosmpolitanism, hipsters & dyed-in-the-wool locals, or something like that...
opolt Sep 19, 2013:
Hm, pretty much ... .. untranslatable I would say (that is, without writing a dissertation). (Also, as a Berliner I have to say this is quite ennervating, to put it mildly -- but that's probably beside the point ...)

Proposed translations

+2
2 hrs
Selected

corner pubs and cosmopolitanism, hipsters and true Berliners

Or you could reword the sentence to use the phrase 'from ... to...' i.e. from corner pubs to cosmo.... and I would replace the ampersands in EN.
Peer comment(s):
agree Lancashireman : Ampersand looks so sloppy, yet it seems to be considered chic in modern German prose.
3 hrs
Thanks, Andrew
agree Nicola Wood : The most accurate, concise and elegant version offered here IMHO
16 hrs
Thanks, Nicola
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This is closest to what I used in the end, although thanks to everyone for your input - it all helped!"
46 mins

small neighborhood pubs (see Explanation

Ths is only a try and not scientifically based ;)

small neighborhood pubs & cosmopolitism, Hipster & old-fashioned Berliner, flooded with Swabians & natives of Hamburg, philharmonic orchestra & Techno Clubs, home of swatters & the German Chancellor...

Kiez is a slang word that is mostly used in Berlin and other parts of Northern Germany and usually t refers to a city neighborhood, a relatively small community within a larger town.

There is a Panorama Bar in Berlin-Bergheim, which is obviously pretty famous in the "Techno music" community.

Maybe my suggestion will at least inspire you a little bit. This sentence is really a tough one to translate!!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : squatters?? I don't know what swatters are! And cosmopolitANism. Small neighbourhood pubs is nice, though perhaps a bit long. And BerlinerS is probably what is meant.
4 hrs
Yes Helen, swatters are a typo and I obviously messed the cosmopolitanism up too ;) By reading the whole paragraph I just assumed that "hipster" is singular, so I made the "Berliner" singular too. Otherwise it would have to be "hipsters"
Something went wrong...
-1
5 hrs

pub in the ‘hood & cosmo vibe; hipster style & Berlin gob

another suggestion. From an Ex-Berliner.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Helen Shiner : There is so much wrong with this!! Sorry, Johanna. Hood like that means ghetto, Cosmo is a magazine and gob (for goodness sake!) means mouth not language/dialect.
7 mins
Oh my.
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

Archetypal pubs & cosmopolitan flair, hipsters & Berliner tongue

The German translations of the blogger below are less than accurate but I like the reference to his mother's "Berliner tongue".

"Archetypal" gets across what "Kiez" stands for and is often used in connection with pubs. In addition, I think that "cosmopolitan flair" sounds a bit more vivid than "cosmopolitanism" (which I have trouble pronouncing anyway).

I have no strong opinion about the ampersands.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-09-19 20:22:08 GMT)
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Thanks, Helen, but I find archetypal less boring than traditional. You could be right but I am inclined to think that people who'd confuse "Berliner tongue" with a dish (especially when juxtaposed with hipsters) may be the same people who thought that JFK once called himself a "jelly doughnut". You can't cater to everyone, especially not in translation. Come to think of it, I'd probably relish the thought that some may find this ambiguous... ;-)

"His harmonious sets are packed with honest energy and don‘t shy away from knocking forth a sassy electronic version of the Berliner tongue."
http://www.sasomobookings.com/index.php?article_id=12

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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-09-19 20:39:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Another text sample for comparison:

"Bar 25 is archetypal Berlin: wild, vibrant, unpolished, and real." http://www.planet-mag.com/2008/worldparty/marc-rothman/bar-2...
Reference:

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php?topic=2608.65;wap2

Note from asker:
I did like (and use) your cosmopolitan flair, so thank you for your help!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : I quite like your idea about cosmopolitan flair, though I can pronounce cosmopolitanism (!), but I think archetypal is a bit heavy (maybe traditional?). Berliner tongue would be understood as a piece of meat though. Proper Berlin dialect might work.
32 mins
Useful insights but see my response in the notes.
Something went wrong...
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