Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
ruinógeno
English translation:
fatal; dilapidation-prone
Added to glossary by
Adrian MM. (X)
Apr 29, 2016 01:06
8 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Spanish term
Mexico
Translating full-time since 1998
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: Spanish to English
ruinógeno
Spanish to English
Law/Patents
Real Estate
Contractual Liability (Spain to UK)
Here's a word you don't see everyday.
This the context:
En todo caso, XXXX (en cuanto a su condición de co-propietario de la construcción) quedará exento de todo tipo de responsabilidades derivada de vicios de la construcción, ****ruinógenos,**** frente a terceros o cualquier otra que pudiera tener su causa en la construcción y promoción del Proyecto...
I found this page which goes some way in explaining the concept "vicios ruinógenos":
http://iuristax.blogspot.mx/2012/02/vicios-ruinogenos-concep...
“El concepto de ruina (que no es un supuesto de saneamiento por vicios ocultos) no es el restrictivo que significa destrucción de la obra, sino uno mucho más amplio, el de ruina funcional que alcanza o bien a toda la construcción o bien a parte o elementos de la misma, excediendo de imperfecciones corrientes. La doctrina de esta Sala es reiterada: lo que expresaron las sentencias de 4 de abril de 1.978 y 8 de junio de 1.987 se ha venido repitiendo una y otra vez: la doctrina que reiteradamente ha venido manteniendo esta Sala para perfilar el concepto de ruina, abunda en la idea de separarle de una interpretación literal, identificativa con el derrumbamiento de un edificio, para comprender en él a aquellos graves defectos que hagan temer la pérdida del inmueble o le hagan inútil para la finalidad que le es propia, así como a aquellos otros que, por exceder de las imperfecciones corrientes, configuren una violación del contrato o incidan en la habitabilidad del edificio. Lo que significa que la ruina funcional configura una auténtica violación del contrato y superador del significado riguroso y estricto de arruinamiento total o parcial de la obra hecha, tal como dijo la sentencia de 1 febrero 1.988 y en el mismo sentido, la de 6 marzo 1.990; y como añaden las de 15 junio 1.990, 13 julio 1.990, 15 de octubre 1.990, 31 diciembre 1.992, 25 enero 1.993 y 29 marzo 1.994, se extiende a aquellos defectos de construcción que, por exceder de las imperfecciones corrientes, configuran una violación del contrato”.
So, does anyone know of an equivalent concept in UK law?
Thanks in advance.
This the context:
En todo caso, XXXX (en cuanto a su condición de co-propietario de la construcción) quedará exento de todo tipo de responsabilidades derivada de vicios de la construcción, ****ruinógenos,**** frente a terceros o cualquier otra que pudiera tener su causa en la construcción y promoción del Proyecto...
I found this page which goes some way in explaining the concept "vicios ruinógenos":
http://iuristax.blogspot.mx/2012/02/vicios-ruinogenos-concep...
“El concepto de ruina (que no es un supuesto de saneamiento por vicios ocultos) no es el restrictivo que significa destrucción de la obra, sino uno mucho más amplio, el de ruina funcional que alcanza o bien a toda la construcción o bien a parte o elementos de la misma, excediendo de imperfecciones corrientes. La doctrina de esta Sala es reiterada: lo que expresaron las sentencias de 4 de abril de 1.978 y 8 de junio de 1.987 se ha venido repitiendo una y otra vez: la doctrina que reiteradamente ha venido manteniendo esta Sala para perfilar el concepto de ruina, abunda en la idea de separarle de una interpretación literal, identificativa con el derrumbamiento de un edificio, para comprender en él a aquellos graves defectos que hagan temer la pérdida del inmueble o le hagan inútil para la finalidad que le es propia, así como a aquellos otros que, por exceder de las imperfecciones corrientes, configuren una violación del contrato o incidan en la habitabilidad del edificio. Lo que significa que la ruina funcional configura una auténtica violación del contrato y superador del significado riguroso y estricto de arruinamiento total o parcial de la obra hecha, tal como dijo la sentencia de 1 febrero 1.988 y en el mismo sentido, la de 6 marzo 1.990; y como añaden las de 15 junio 1.990, 13 julio 1.990, 15 de octubre 1.990, 31 diciembre 1.992, 25 enero 1.993 y 29 marzo 1.994, se extiende a aquellos defectos de construcción que, por exceder de las imperfecciones corrientes, configuran una violación del contrato”.
So, does anyone know of an equivalent concept in UK law?
Thanks in advance.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | fatal; causing dilapidation |
Adrian MM. (X)
|
| 3 | defects |
David Hollywood
|
| 3 | such as to render the premises unfit for use / habitation |
Charles Davis
|
References
| Refs. |
Taña Dalglish
|
Change log
May 14, 2016 07:33: Adrian MM. (X) Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
5 hrs
Spanish term (edited):
(Mex: vicio) ruinógeno
Selected
fatal; causing dilapidation
No such adjective as 'dilapaditional' but the unusualness of the Spanish descriptor might warrant a contrivance.
The -geno suggests causing, rather than prone to, dilapidation and decay.
cf. schedule of dilapidations in a UK landlord & tenant scenario and normally drawn up by a chartered surveyor on the maintenance of a building the tenant needs to watch out for.
The -geno suggests causing, rather than prone to, dilapidation and decay.
cf. schedule of dilapidations in a UK landlord & tenant scenario and normally drawn up by a chartered surveyor on the maintenance of a building the tenant needs to watch out for.
Example sentence:
Construction defects can threaten the value of a new home or commercial building. ... the safety risks associated with serious construction defects
The entire brickwork structure was soaked in water, causing dilapidation through cycles of freezing and thawing
Note from asker:
| Thanks, Adrian, looks like "fatal" is a good choice here. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Rebecca Jowers
: Yes, as in "fatal defects" or "defects resulting in building failure"
49 mins
|
|
Thanks and gracias!
|
|
| agree |
Amelia_M
14 days
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
26 mins
David Hollywood
Native in English
worked for int. orgs (IMF, OAS, IDB)
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
79
defects
maybe
Note from asker:
| Thanks, David, but I think defects would refer to the "vicios" here. |
7 hrs
such as to render the premises unfit for use / habitation
"Ruinógeno" obviously means liable to generate "ruina". The criteria of "ruina" are quite specific and elaborate and I am doubtful whether a single term in English will cover them unequivocally. The crucial point is that "ruina" is not only structural but also functional; it covers anything that threatens to make the building unusable for its intended purpose. Here's a user-friendly summary:
"Un vicio ruinógeno, en materia de compraventa de viviendas, es un defecto grave de construcción de tal magnitud que afecta a la habitabilidad de la vivienda, haciendo que no cumpla adecuadamente su función (su uso normal para el que se adquirió).
La jurisprudencia española del Tribunal Supremo entiende el concepto de “ruina” en sentido amplio, aplicándolo tanto a los defectos graves que hagan temer la pérdida del inmueble como a otros defectos que excedan de meras imperfecciones y que impidan el disfrute y la normal utilización de la vivienda."
http://www.consumoteca.com/casa-y-jardin/vivienda-en-general...
I've even seen it argued that thin walls leading to an intolerable noise nuisance can be a "vicio ruinógeno".
In Australia, you might be able to use "major defect"; under their Home Building Amendment Act 2014 this is a defect that will:
"Cause or be likely to cause inability to inhabit or use the building for its intended purpose, the destruction of (or part of) the building or threat of collapse of (or part of) the building."
http://www.hfw.com/Home-Building-Act-amendment-January-2015
But in the UK I think the interpretation of "major" might be open to dispute and might not be held to coincide with "ruinógeno". I would be inclined, even at the expense of using a long and unwieldy phrase, to be more precise. As I see it, a defect that renders the premises unfit for use necessarily includes one that could lead to structural collapse.
In the case of residential premises, "unfit for habitation" is a standard term. I'm suggesting "use" so as to broaden it to cover non-residential premises.
Relevant UK legislation includes the Defective Premises Act 1972. This is from a useful set of seminar notes on its implications:
"Unfitness for habitation extends to what Lord Bridge described as 'defects of quality' rendering the dwelling unsuitable for its purpose as well as to 'dangerous defects'.
Unfitness for habitation relates to defects rendering the dwelling dangerous or unsuitable for its purpose and not to minor defects."
http://www.2tgpropertydamage.com/2TG Seminar Handout - Defec...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2016-04-29 08:22:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I did actually consider "fatal", but I can't find any sign that it is a recognised or established term for a type of building defect in UK property law. So I really wonder whether it would be clear what constitutes a "fatal defect" and whether this would be held to coincide with a "vicio ruinógeno".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2016-04-29 22:30:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Robert. Personally I'm not completely happy with "fatal", though I have great faith in Rebecca's judgement. I would prefer something like "defects liable to result in/leading to building failure". As I said in the discussion, I think "building failure" is spot on for "ruina". But as I also said, I think "fatal" looks like the best single-word solution, and it would be a perfectly reasonable option.
"Un vicio ruinógeno, en materia de compraventa de viviendas, es un defecto grave de construcción de tal magnitud que afecta a la habitabilidad de la vivienda, haciendo que no cumpla adecuadamente su función (su uso normal para el que se adquirió).
La jurisprudencia española del Tribunal Supremo entiende el concepto de “ruina” en sentido amplio, aplicándolo tanto a los defectos graves que hagan temer la pérdida del inmueble como a otros defectos que excedan de meras imperfecciones y que impidan el disfrute y la normal utilización de la vivienda."
http://www.consumoteca.com/casa-y-jardin/vivienda-en-general...
I've even seen it argued that thin walls leading to an intolerable noise nuisance can be a "vicio ruinógeno".
In Australia, you might be able to use "major defect"; under their Home Building Amendment Act 2014 this is a defect that will:
"Cause or be likely to cause inability to inhabit or use the building for its intended purpose, the destruction of (or part of) the building or threat of collapse of (or part of) the building."
http://www.hfw.com/Home-Building-Act-amendment-January-2015
But in the UK I think the interpretation of "major" might be open to dispute and might not be held to coincide with "ruinógeno". I would be inclined, even at the expense of using a long and unwieldy phrase, to be more precise. As I see it, a defect that renders the premises unfit for use necessarily includes one that could lead to structural collapse.
In the case of residential premises, "unfit for habitation" is a standard term. I'm suggesting "use" so as to broaden it to cover non-residential premises.
Relevant UK legislation includes the Defective Premises Act 1972. This is from a useful set of seminar notes on its implications:
"Unfitness for habitation extends to what Lord Bridge described as 'defects of quality' rendering the dwelling unsuitable for its purpose as well as to 'dangerous defects'.
Unfitness for habitation relates to defects rendering the dwelling dangerous or unsuitable for its purpose and not to minor defects."
http://www.2tgpropertydamage.com/2TG Seminar Handout - Defec...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2016-04-29 08:22:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I did actually consider "fatal", but I can't find any sign that it is a recognised or established term for a type of building defect in UK property law. So I really wonder whether it would be clear what constitutes a "fatal defect" and whether this would be held to coincide with a "vicio ruinógeno".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2016-04-29 22:30:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Robert. Personally I'm not completely happy with "fatal", though I have great faith in Rebecca's judgement. I would prefer something like "defects liable to result in/leading to building failure". As I said in the discussion, I think "building failure" is spot on for "ruina". But as I also said, I think "fatal" looks like the best single-word solution, and it would be a perfectly reasonable option.
Note from asker:
| Thanks for the explanation, Charles. I think "rendering it unfit for use/purpose" is an accurate description of what the law considers it to mean. So can I take it you're satisfied with "fatal building defects" for "vicios de la construcción ruinógenos"? |
Reference comments
2 hrs
Taña Dalglish
Jamaica
Jamaica
Native in English
Works in field
Jamaica
Translating the Ideas Behind the Words
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
52
Reference:
Refs.
Robert: I don´t know if these will help in any way, but here goes:
https://www.boe.es/publicaciones/anuarios_derecho/abrir_pdf....
En la LOE, el término vicio ruinógeno ha sido sustituido por
expresiones más genéricas y descriptivas. El artículo 17 se refiere a
vicios o defectos que causan daños materiales al edificio y especifica
cuáles son esos vicios o defectos que pueden dar lugar a la
responsabilidad prevista en la nueva Ley: los que afecten a la
cimentación, los soportes, las vigas, los forjados, los muros de
carga u otros elementos estructurales, y que comprometen directamente
la resistencia mecánica y la estabilidad del edificio; los que
afecten a elementos constructivos o de las instalaciones que ocasionen
el incumplimiento de los requisitos de habitabilidad, y los
que afecten a elementos de terminación o acabado de las obras 19.
Como veremos más adelante, ello no impide que el promotor pueda
acudir a las normas generales de la responsabilidad contractual
(admitido expresamente en el artículo 17.1 LOE); además, hay
supuestos de defectos y daños (p. e., daños no materiales) de la
construcción que no tienen encaje en el artículo 17, pero que pueden
encontrar su solución en las normas del Código civil.
Our study, which focused primarily on Spanish law, with some insight
into German law, will focus on the concept of vice or defect, the reception of
the work and the legal and jurisprudential solutions in case of vice or defect
in the work.
http://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-20660.aspx
What is a “ruin” legally speaking?
In this regard we should mention, by way of example, the Supreme Court ruling of 4 March 1998 as an expression of the concept of ruina (serious building defect) that in an evolutionary way, Supreme Court Case Law has been consolidating:
[Robert, I found this which is part of your text, although this translation could be tweaked]
"... The concept of ruin is not [the] [my suggestion: a] restrictive one [which means] [meaning] the total destruction of the work, but one [which is] much broader: that of a functional ruin which reaches either the whole building or part of it, exceeding the level of just current imperfections. The doctrine of this Court is settled: serious defects that make possible the loss of the property or make it useless for the purpose which is proper, as well as those who, by exceeding current imperfections, entail a violation of the contract or affect the livability of the building.
https://www.boe.es/publicaciones/anuarios_derecho/abrir_pdf....
En la LOE, el término vicio ruinógeno ha sido sustituido por
expresiones más genéricas y descriptivas. El artículo 17 se refiere a
vicios o defectos que causan daños materiales al edificio y especifica
cuáles son esos vicios o defectos que pueden dar lugar a la
responsabilidad prevista en la nueva Ley: los que afecten a la
cimentación, los soportes, las vigas, los forjados, los muros de
carga u otros elementos estructurales, y que comprometen directamente
la resistencia mecánica y la estabilidad del edificio; los que
afecten a elementos constructivos o de las instalaciones que ocasionen
el incumplimiento de los requisitos de habitabilidad, y los
que afecten a elementos de terminación o acabado de las obras 19.
Como veremos más adelante, ello no impide que el promotor pueda
acudir a las normas generales de la responsabilidad contractual
(admitido expresamente en el artículo 17.1 LOE); además, hay
supuestos de defectos y daños (p. e., daños no materiales) de la
construcción que no tienen encaje en el artículo 17, pero que pueden
encontrar su solución en las normas del Código civil.
Our study, which focused primarily on Spanish law, with some insight
into German law, will focus on the concept of vice or defect, the reception of
the work and the legal and jurisprudential solutions in case of vice or defect
in the work.
http://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-20660.aspx
What is a “ruin” legally speaking?
In this regard we should mention, by way of example, the Supreme Court ruling of 4 March 1998 as an expression of the concept of ruina (serious building defect) that in an evolutionary way, Supreme Court Case Law has been consolidating:
[Robert, I found this which is part of your text, although this translation could be tweaked]
"... The concept of ruin is not [the] [my suggestion: a] restrictive one [which means] [meaning] the total destruction of the work, but one [which is] much broader: that of a functional ruin which reaches either the whole building or part of it, exceeding the level of just current imperfections. The doctrine of this Court is settled: serious defects that make possible the loss of the property or make it useless for the purpose which is proper, as well as those who, by exceeding current imperfections, entail a violation of the contract or affect the livability of the building.
Note from asker:
| Thanks Taña, very helpful, in fact I actually did use "serious construction defects" in my translation of "vicios de la construcción, ruinógenos", as I had to deliver it before the other answers were posted! I don't think it's too different from the actual meaning. Saludos. |
Discussion
I admit that if you want one word for "ruinógeno" it's difficult to see how to improve on "fatal".