Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
Die Indentität des Autors mit seinem Werk
English translation:
The author’s identification with his oeuvre/work
Added to glossary by
Stephen Old
Feb 12, 2019 19:48
5 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term
Die Indentität des Autors mit seinem Werk
German to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
Zen and haiku poetry
This phrase occurs at least twice in my translation text. Here it refers to Ginsberg but I am not sure of the exact translation, or meaning of this phrase.
Daß es für ihn zu einem Überlebensprinzip im weitesten Sinne wurde, zeigen die an "animal soup of time" anschließenden Verse, die gleichermaßen den vierten Komplex, die Frage nach der Identität von Autor und Werk betreffen:
Daß es für ihn zu einem Überlebensprinzip im weitesten Sinne wurde, zeigen die an "animal soup of time" anschließenden Verse, die gleichermaßen den vierten Komplex, die Frage nach der Identität von Autor und Werk betreffen:
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +4 | The author’s identification with his oeuvre/work | Helen Shiner |
3 +3 | inseparability of author and his work | Michael Martin, MA |
References
animal soup of time | Helen Shiner |
Proposed translations
+4
13 hrs
Selected
The author’s identification with his oeuvre/work
As per my discussion entries. Can be used whether the identification is being done by a third-party or by the author himself.
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Note added at 3 days 21 hrs (2019-02-16 16:51:49 GMT) Post-grading
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My pleasure, Stephen. Glad to hear the kitten is keeping you from your work ;-)
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Note added at 3 days 21 hrs (2019-02-16 16:51:49 GMT) Post-grading
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My pleasure, Stephen. Glad to hear the kitten is keeping you from your work ;-)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Björn Vrooman
: This one is good (I think my d-box example would be OK too). The use of inseparability, however, is not--in political journalism, you'd call that slant or bias (considering the author didn't say anything about it being "untrennbar").
17 mins
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Thanks, Björn. I agree re inseparability.
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agree |
writeaway
7 hrs
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Thanks, writeaway
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agree |
Lancashireman
: ... with BV. There is no case for straying from the 'identi-' morpheme.
16 hrs
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Thanks, Lancashireman. Agreed.
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agree |
Darin Fitzpatrick
1 day 1 hr
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Thanks, Darin
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you for your expert help again, Helen. I have been busy with, and must return to kitten-minding duties. There are photos on Twitter. "
+3
55 mins
inseparability of author and his work
Compare with this line (and the whole segment for context)
"In my paper, I would like to follow an argument based on the
inseparability of the authoress from her work." https://www.atiner.gr/papers/LAW2013-0861.pdf
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs (2019-02-14 05:05:00 GMT)
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I think we may have a case here of confusing identity with identification. It's not much of an insight to note that an author identifies with his work (what author doesn't?) To me, it seems both more meaningful and linguistically accurate to examine to what extent work and person are intertwined (from the readership's perspective). That's exactly what the German expression points to and what my solution reflects without ambiguity.
"In my paper, I would like to follow an argument based on the
inseparability of the authoress from her work." https://www.atiner.gr/papers/LAW2013-0861.pdf
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs (2019-02-14 05:05:00 GMT)
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I think we may have a case here of confusing identity with identification. It's not much of an insight to note that an author identifies with his work (what author doesn't?) To me, it seems both more meaningful and linguistically accurate to examine to what extent work and person are intertwined (from the readership's perspective). That's exactly what the German expression points to and what my solution reflects without ambiguity.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Madeleine van Zanten
10 hrs
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Thanks, Madeleine!
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agree |
Sabrina Stolfa
: I like that! :-)
11 hrs
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Same here. Identification comes across as a bit pedestrian.
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agree |
Johanna Timm, PhD
: yes- It’s about “Howl”, where Ginsburg, in his own words, wanted to scribble magic lines from my real mind—sum up my life—something I wouldn’t be able to show anybody, write for my own soul’s ear and a few other golden ears. https://owlcation.com/h
2 days 23 hrs
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Thanks. Hey wait. You didn't get Björn's memo?
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Reference comments
14 mins
Reference:
animal soup of time
This might help a little to understand what Ginsburg means by this term:
Yet the Ginsberg of the late fifties was an oddly contradictory figure. He was a strident revolutionary who, when not announcing his absolute newness, was busily tracing his genealogical links with underground traditions and neglected masters, especially Blake and Whitman. History was bunk, but the new consciousness Ginsberg proclaimed was empowered by a fairly familiar form of nineteenth-century Idealism, the basis for his admiration for Blake and Whitman. Ginsberg opened his poetry to sordid urban realities, and he packed "Howl" with things, with matter. Yet, as we shall see, immersion in what he calls "the total animal soup of time" was the first step in a painful ordeal which ended in the visionary’s flight out of time. Ginsberg’s poem reaches, nervously and ardently, after rest from urban frenzy, a resolution the poet can only find in a vertical transcendence. Ginsberg’s departure from the end-of-the-line modernism was a dramatic but hardly a new one; it took the form of a return to those very romantic models and attitudes that modernism tried to shun.
http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/g_l/ginsberg/bres...
Yet the Ginsberg of the late fifties was an oddly contradictory figure. He was a strident revolutionary who, when not announcing his absolute newness, was busily tracing his genealogical links with underground traditions and neglected masters, especially Blake and Whitman. History was bunk, but the new consciousness Ginsberg proclaimed was empowered by a fairly familiar form of nineteenth-century Idealism, the basis for his admiration for Blake and Whitman. Ginsberg opened his poetry to sordid urban realities, and he packed "Howl" with things, with matter. Yet, as we shall see, immersion in what he calls "the total animal soup of time" was the first step in a painful ordeal which ended in the visionary’s flight out of time. Ginsberg’s poem reaches, nervously and ardently, after rest from urban frenzy, a resolution the poet can only find in a vertical transcendence. Ginsberg’s departure from the end-of-the-line modernism was a dramatic but hardly a new one; it took the form of a return to those very romantic models and attitudes that modernism tried to shun.
http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/g_l/ginsberg/bres...
Note from asker:
Thanks for all these contributions. This is a new field to me and the German author of my translation text writes in a very concise style I am also distracted by our little kitten who has been with us for nearly three weeks! |
Discussion
I didn't agree with Helen's reference post because the German sentence has little to do with this particular author (which doesn't invalidate her answer, of course).
Here is another example:
"Die Materialität des Buches ist mit der leiblichen Existenz des Autors verknüpft. Insofern ist die Identität von Autor und Werk mehr als nur Metaphernspiel, sie kann sich im Objekt des Buches körperlich realisieren."
http://othes.univie.ac.at/5919/1/2009-07-15_0305627.pdf
If you can't figure out why you shouldn't turn that into a literary competition or a marketing text, then I can't help you.
Best
"This more flexible approach to understanding the mechanisms for raising text to exemplar status encourages us to ask what precisely is being celebrated at any given point by any single form of institutionalisation, a reflection that in turn raises questions about the relationship between an author and his work."
http://www.mhra.org.uk/pdf/wph-8-1.pdf
Inseparability is utterly wrong, IMO.
Best
"[uncountable] identity (with somebody/something) | identity (between A and B) the state or feeling of being very similar to and able to understand somebody/something
an identity of interests
There's a close identity between fans and their team."
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis...
Best
"Identität von Autor und Erzähler
Da der Autor sich alles (Figuren und Handlungen) ausdenkt oder/und auf eigene Erfahrungen, Erlebnisse usw. zurück greift, erzählt er selbst. Zumindest in den Passagen, die nicht den Figuren zugeordnet werden können, ist seine Stimme zu hören, zum Beispiel beim (berichtenden) Erzählen, Kommentaren usw.
Dietrich Weber erscheint es schlicht nicht einleuchtend, dass ein Autor, schon Figuren oder Handlungen erfindet, auch noch einen Erzähler erfinden müsse. Allerdings mache er in der Regel nicht auf sich aufmerksam, sondern verleugne sich und oft auch den Erzähler."
http://www.beate-jonscher.de/theorie/erzaehler/autor_erzaehl...
It's in the Duden:
"völlige Übereinstimmung mit jemandem, etwas in Bezug auf etwas; Gleichheit
Grammatik
ohne Plural
Beispiele
die Identität des Verhafteten mit dem Entführer
die chemische Identität des Teins und des Koffeins"
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Identitaet#Bedeutung2
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