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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

debout dans les vergues

English translation:

the crew standing up in the rigging

Added to glossary by Sarah Russell
Feb 21, 2022 11:02
2 yrs ago
32 viewers *
French term

debout dans les vergues

French to English Other Transport / Transportation / Shipping
Under a chartering agreement for a shipping festival, each shipowner that is planning to sell their vessel to the festival has various obligations, including the following:
'Rappeler les marins au poste de manoeuvre lors de l'arrivée au Port, dans la mesure du possible, *debout dans les vergues*'. I can see from searches in Robert & Collins and online that a 'vergue' can be a yard or a piece of wood, metal or composite material used to support a mast, so could this mean that the sailors must stand to attention in the yard? I can't see how anything to do with the masts of the ships could tie in with 'rappeler les marins'. Thanks very much if you're able to help me!
Proposed translations (English)
4 the crew standing up in the rigging
2 +3 standing up on the yardarms
References
Sun Over the Yardarm
Rigging terminology in old sailboats, tall ships, three or four-masted sailing ships

Discussion

Sarah Russell (asker) Feb 23, 2022:
Thank you so much to everyone who has taken the time to help me with this term. I actually ended up checking with the client, who has confirmed ph-b's and Chris Collister's suggestion that 'les vergues' refers to the 'mâture', meaning that the sailors do stand on the masts of the ship as it arrives in the port. So if either answerer would like to make their suggestion a 'proposed translation', that will give me the opportunity to grade the answer. Thanks again!
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Feb 22, 2022:
@Lisa There's nothing too mysterious about this term. A "vergue" is a "yardarm" the sort you see in the Tall Ships' Races.
Lisa Rosengard Feb 22, 2022:
There's some specific vocabulary about sailing and ship-building. The ships in the question seem to have sails of various sizes and formats. Those are raised on masts, which are long poles bearing the sails as cordoned attachments, in a vertical position. There are also horizontal poles which are probably smaller than the vertically upstanding ones, as those form a wooden or metallic cross when they are built to be together as a strong structure which supports and bears the sails of a ship. The French 'vergues' seem to be either the horizontal poles attached to vertical masts supporting and maintaining the sails in position, or the base of a ship, boat or other vessel itself.
chris collister Feb 21, 2022:
@ Lisa I fear not: "marins" are just "sailors", "manouevring position" makes no sense, and "les vergues" does not mean "shipyard", or at least not in this context. See this example of a tall ship coming into port: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvKXZp3c_A&ab_channel=David... . The "marins" can clearly be seen standing on the "vergues" (after 2 mins).
Lisa Rosengard Feb 21, 2022:
I suggest it says 'Call the marines to manoeuvre position at the time of arrival at the port, as far as possible, upstanding in the shipyard.'
Conor McAuley Feb 21, 2022:
Makes more sense!
Sarah Russell (asker) Feb 21, 2022:
Thanks very much to those who have responded so far. Apologies but 'sell their vessel' should read 'sail their vessel' ...
chris collister Feb 21, 2022:
Nothing to do with cracking open the rum or gin after the sun has gone down over the yardarm. Rather, it's just to make an impressive entry into port with all the crew dressed in their best, lining the decks and rigging.
Sarah, I guess you don't mean literally "sell their vessel...", but "make an impression"?
ph-b (X) Feb 21, 2022:
Sarah, Re: "I can't see how anything to do with the masts of the ships could tie in with 'rappeler les marins'" You need to consider the whole of rappeler les marins au poste de manœuvre, i.e. send sailors back to les vergues (= poste de manœuvre), where they used to do all sorts of clever things with the sails in order to manœuvre commercial or navy ships. This is also where they would traditionnally stand when coming into port - which is what your text describes - or to salute visiting French heads of state and their guests during ceremonies in the case of French Navy ships. A literal translation may be all that is required, unless the Royal Navy (you're in the UK) or other English-speaking navies have their own expressions - which wouldn't surprise me. You need a translator who specialises in these things.

Proposed translations

2 days 3 hrs
French term (edited): (les marins) debout dans les vergues
Selected

the crew standing up in the rigging

This is another way of expressing it that would be extremely well understood by the general public come to see the spectacle, without dumbing anything down. If we're going to be really extra precise, the "on the yards" would be more accurate than "on the yardarms" and the latter are actually the end/outer part of these spars. I guess it depends who your target audience is and other elements of context. You might even go for "inn the rigging, on the yardarms", or the other way round.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everyone for your help, and especially to Nikki, whose answer was confirmed by the client."
+3
17 mins

standing up on the yardarms

yardarm

wordreference.com/fren/vergue

Standing to attention would sort of make sense, but the thing as a whole doesn't at all, to me, anyway.

Weird sailor stuff?



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Note added at 5 hrs (2022-02-21 16:24:38 GMT)
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The right term precisely appears to be "at parade rest", pictures here:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="at parade rest" sailors&s...

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Note added at 5 hrs (2022-02-21 16:27:50 GMT)
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So presumably the full answer, if it makes sense to the experts, would be:

"at parade rest on the yardarms"

Then again, that is the navy, not civilians.

For civilians, maybe "on parade on the yardarms"?
Peer comment(s):
agree Anastasia Kalantzi : Tu as totalement raison et c'est pas du tout bizarre car il y a l'expression nautique "the sun is over the yardarm"=la matinée est bien avancée, which was acceptable to drink alcohol, or il n'était pas l'heure de boire: on était debout dans les vergues!
1 hr
Thanks Anastasia!
agree Bourth : "Watching Kruzenshtern and Mir, the great Russian four-masted ships, heading towards the starting line in Falmouth with sailors standing on the spars"//Not selling, for the Armada de Rouen, to impress visitors. Sell/sail?
3 hrs
Thanks CT! What I don't understand is the connection between planning to sell a ship and having all your sailors on parade when coming into the port.
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : "On parade in the yardarms". https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergue Seen this quite a lot over the years attending various types of races and regattas of tall ships. Check out the Tall Ships' Races. Also seen from North Cove Yacht Harbor one 4th July '93?
22 hrs
Thanks Nikki!
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Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

Sun Over the Yardarm

https://www.harbourguides.com/news/SUN-OVER-THE-YARDARM----o...
https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20...

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Note added at 2 ώρες (2022-02-21 13:20:01 GMT)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yard_(sailing)

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Note added at 2 ώρες (2022-02-21 13:51:45 GMT)
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On est debout dans les vergues
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergue

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Note added at 7 ώρες (2022-02-21 18:19:24 GMT)
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Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Bourth : Similar picture here at the 'sailabration' in Baltimore. https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photo-standing-spars-image2...
6 hrs
Yeah! That's truthfully an amazing nautical hard life's demonstration! We've been fishermen as a family for many decades but this is a whole lot different thing.
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Exactly. Seen the Tall Ships Race and also had a couple of friends do a leg or too. A fantastic adventure.
1 day 5 hrs
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1 day 7 hrs
Reference:

Rigging terminology in old sailboats, tall ships, three or four-masted sailing ships

For those who are familiar with sailing term in French, particularly with reference to older ships, you are likely to know the journal "Le Chasse-Marée", (cf. archive setion on chasse-maree.com. I have a couple of books produced by Le Chasse-Marée / ArMen which are known to be classic references in this field. Here are the entries for the term "vergue" in each of the two guides:

Guide des Gréements. Petite encyclopédie des voiliers anciens
"Vergue: espar sur lequel s'enverge une voile. Vergue sèche : Vergue ne portant pas de voile, ne servant qu'aux écoutes de la voile supérieure".

Guide des Termes de Marine. Petit dictionnaire thématique de Marine
"Vergue: (Yard) Espar sur lequel est tendue l'envergure d'une voile carréee ou au tiers, ete qui s'établit contre le mât".

Note that the "yardarm" described the end/outer part of the yard. A 'yard" is basically any spar carried in the upper parts of the rig.
Reference:

https://www.chasse-maree.com/boutique/927-etuis-du-chasse-maree

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