May 15, 2023 16:06
12 mos ago
32 viewers *
French term

standards éthiques de bien public

French to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Cooperation agreement involving a well-known international organisation and assignment of its intellectual property rights.

"
....
Adhésion aux valeurs éthiques
La Fondation doit disposer d'un code de conduite en se dotant d’une Charte éthique (Annexe 2), permettant :
D’agir pour la promotion des droits de XXX dans le strict respect desdits droits,
D’assurer la protection et le haut niveau de réputation de AAA et de BBB ainsi que de la Marque AAA,
D’assurer la protection de ses donateurs, des personnes qui soutiennent AAA, de son personnel, de ses bénévoles et ainsi d’assurer son futur à long terme,
D’adhérer aux principes éthiques et aux valeurs de BBB,
De respecter les standards éthiques de bien public conformes au Comité de la Charte des organismes faisant appel à la générosité publique,
De mettre en place des contrôles internes, une gestion prudente des risques et des moyens de prévention des crises,
..."

"Organismes faisant appel à la générosité publique" appears to be "charitable organisations".

Seems to be referring to some supposed ethnical standards which are, maybe, specially adopted by "public establishments" perhaps. "Bien public" has come up... https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/government-poli... ... but "no acceptable answer".

Discussion

Daryo May 16, 2023:
"le bien public" is about what benefits the whole society, or "the society as a whole".

As opposed to what benefits limited private interests of individuals or businesses.

There is a connection with "res publica".

So "standards éthiques de bien public" would be code of ethics / ethical standards orientated toward the common good / public good / what's beneficial to the society as a whole.
Emmanuella May 16, 2023:
Il faut faire la différence entre [ un] bien public et [ le bien public]. C'est ce dont il est question . Voir mon lien UNICEF posté hier. Lire après 'Préambule'.
AllegroTrans May 15, 2023:
Qu'est-ce qu'un bien public exemple?
Les feux d'artifice sont un bien public local, car toute personne à proximité du spectacle peut en profiter. La défense nationale est un bien public national, car elle bénéficie à tous les citoyens de l'État. Les biens publics mondiaux sont ceux dont peuvent pro- fiter les citoyens du monde entier.2 Dec 2021
Emmanuella May 15, 2023:
Mpoma (asker) May 15, 2023:
**ethical** standards, obvs, not "ethnical". Be nice to be able to edit a bit!

Proposed translations

5 hrs
Selected

moral standards promoting the common good

Yes. Has come up before. I don't think bien public equates with 'biens publics' or 'public property or amenities' as intellectual property rights are generally not publicly owned.

Gemeinwohl DEU/ENG in the first ProZ weblink means something like the common good or 'common weal'.Everyone everywhere shares a common moral code. All agree that cooperating, promoting the common good, is the right thing to do.

Public morality seems another avenue to to take, as - in French - there is an intellectual property clash of 'moral' with the meaning of moral (intellectual property and non-material) rights.

Cut to the contra bonos mores /public policy case of Shaw v. Director of Public Prosecutions, House of Lords 1962Defendant, Shaw, published a booklet called the 'Ladies' Directory', which advertised the names and addresses of prostitutes, included their pictures, ...

Example sentence:

The common good has been an important ethical concept in a society that has encouraged many to "look out for Number 1. + " Everyone everywhere shares a common moral code. All agree that cooperating, promoting the common good, is the right thing to do

IATE fr bien public en public benefit vs. fr assurance des biens publics en insurance of public property

Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : Sadly, and without needing to refer to another language, 'bien public' does have a very specific meaning — just because it's an awkward concept to render in EN doesn't mean we should attempt to change its meaning.
8 hrs
You may have been conflating 'le bien public' - the common good or weal - with 'les biens publics': public property.
neutral AllegroTrans : agree with TM
16 hrs
Then you are conniving at and acquiescing in a conflation that even Steve Robbie refers to, without mentioning my answer.
neutral Daryo : roughly yes, but a booklet called the 'Ladies' Directory' is hardly a good illustration of the principle.
22 hrs
Well, you've learned something about English law & public policy that I did half a century ago.
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3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I'm really puzzled by this expression and have no idea what it really means. This seems like one possibility."
+2
3 hrs

ethical standards for the public good

"public good" is the way I'd phrase it in English but there are certainly many good ways to translate this
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : I really don't believe that 'bien public' here means 'le bien du public'; I believe this is a translation error. See previous question to find a good definition of 'bien public' — in essence, 'common property'
4 mins
agree Adrian MM. : right idea I've elaborated on in my own answer.. //The disagrees are coming from forgetters of their (night?) school French..
1 hr
disagree Andrew Bramhall : Agree with Tony; a good example of the meaning would be the BBC, which belongs to tout le monde;
10 hrs
agree Steve Robbie : No idea where the disagreements are coming from.
16 hrs
agree Emmanuella
18 hrs
agree Daryo
1 day 4 mins
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-2
4 hrs

ethical standards

I don't think the three previous suggestions work very well.

These are ethical standards for charitable organisations, as mentioned later in the sentence. I think the 'bien public', meaning something like 'public welfare', is redundant and can be omitted.
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : I cannot agree with your "leave it out" logic here, even if we don't have an equivalent expression in (British) English; you can't simply ignore "le bien public"
3 hrs
neutral Tony M : Nor does it mean 'public welfare', which is your excuse for leaving it out — it cannot be omitted here.
9 hrs
neutral Emmanuella : Il manque l'élément principal
17 hrs
disagree Daryo : you can't just ignore the "... de bien public" part + which is not about "welfare", BTW
22 hrs
disagree Adrian MM. : Your usual tactic and mantra chanted of 'redundant' and 'leave out, when in doubt' IMO are very unprofessional. Maybe it is time to take out that professional indemnity insurance policy....
3 days 17 hrs
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-1
7 hrs

democratic ehtical standards

"Democratic" in France has a very broad compass, i.e. the state is the people etc. etc.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : I think that's taking int too far from the original sense: one might then say that some 'ethical standards' are UNdemocratic, which is not really what we're talking about here.
6 hrs
neutral Emmanuella : Démocratique n'est pas indiqué
14 hrs
neutral Daryo : "democracy / democratic" is so used (and abused) that more often that not it means everything and nothing. Too far away from the ST.
20 hrs
disagree Adrian MM. : Unless I am mistaken, you - hopelessly - have tried to reword my answer.
3 days 15 hrs
I cannot see the faintest resemblance to your answer
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-1
3 hrs

ethical standards in public property

I'm sure that the 'bien' here does indeed refer to 'property', albeit in the widest sense — things that belong to everyone, like the air or the sea or radio waves.

However, I remain unconvinced of this as a viable way of rendering this notion in EN, which I think needs a lot of "massaging" and probably total reformulation.

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Note added at 13 hrs (2023-05-16 06:05:56 GMT)
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If you look at the reference provided in that previous KudoZ question, there is a lot less mystery — it explains exactly what it means!
The problem is, I don't think we have an equally succinct term for the same concept in EN — but as you say, the 'bien' here is definitely the same idea as 'res' in the Latin term.
Note from asker:
I'm partly inclining to a theory that "bien public" is a Gallicism translating "res publica": not in the meaning of "Republic" so much, as "common wealth"/"commonwealth" ... maybe. This is pure conjecture and doesn't provide an obvious solution for this mysterious expression.
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : I think this is along the right lines but we somehow need something a little "wider" than public property
2 hrs
Thanks, C! Yes, I agree, and as I said, I think it really needs paraphrasing.
neutral Emmanuella : No property - le bien public
18 hrs
disagree Daryo : Pretty sure that "bien" in "bien public" in this ST is not about any kind of property. It's about "the society as a whole doing well" / "what's good for the whole society" and "standards éthiques" contributing to that goal.
23 hrs
agree Andrew Bramhall : Tony is more or less right; it's about 'property' in the sense of ' intellectual property in the public domain', shared by all of us.
1 day 14 mins
disagree Adrian MM. : Excuse me, Tony, (I don't say sorry outside of England) but you IMO - and even per Daryo - may have dropped an unforgivable clanger.
3 days 18 hrs
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22 hrs

ethical standards in (throughout) the public domain

Second attempt
Peer comment(s):

neutral Emmanuella : Standard de bien public et non standard dans le domaine public
6 mins
Perhaps you would like to propose a translation yourself
neutral Daryo : Wouldn't that mean that everyone knows about these standards (they're not secret, they've been published), whatever these standards apply to?
6 hrs
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Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

https://shs.hal.science/halshs-00196418/document

Les normes éthiques comme biens publics :
La question du développement économique
Juliette ARNAL♣
Document de travail octobre 2005 1
Résumé :
L’éthique économique satisfait une demande de repérage et d’affirmation de règles communes
relatives à la sphère économique. La question de la formalisation de l’éthique se pose donc pour qu’elle puisse s’intégrer à l’entreprise. Les normes éthiques, outils spécifiques de formalisation, établissent un compromis entre la recherche d’une attitude responsable, un état de la technique et les contraintes économiques. L’intérêt porté aux normes éthiques se justifie par le fait qu’elles représentent des modes de coordination originaux pour l’économie. A travers une réflexion sur la nature des normes, il est intéressant de voir que la norme éthique peut être perçue comme un bien semi-public, ce qui mène à discuter de l’impact des normes éthiques en terme de développement.

Enfin, il semble indispensable s’interroger sur la légitimité des normes éthiques, sur le plan national comme international.

Mots clés : éthique économique, norme éthique, instance de régulation, bien public

Ethical standards as public goods: the issue of economic development
Abstract:
The economic ethics tries to define common rules relative to the economic system. Thus, the ethics formalization is at issue, so that ethics can be integrated at firm level. Ethical standard, as a specific tool of formalization, compromises between a responsible behaviour, a state of technique and economic constraints. Ethical standard is relevant because it represents a particular way of economic
coordination. Consequently, it is interesting to analyse standards’ nature: ethical standards can be analysed as public goods, or more precisely as dual public goods. Then, this leads to study the impact of ethical standards in terms of development. Finally, it seems necessary to focus on the broader issue of ethical standards’ legitimacy, at national and international level.

Key words: Economic ethics, ethical standards, authority of regulation, public good
JEL Classification : L16, L59, M14, R
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral Tony M : I think the EN example here is a very poor translation of the FR text, and certainly not to be relied upon!
1 hr
I agree!
neutral Daryo : These are two different concepts: "les biens publics" is not "le bien public" in plural (not regarding the meaning) // this is not relevant for this ST.
1 day 18 hrs
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20 hrs
Reference:

Le bien public

There seems to be some confusion in the thread between:

un bien public: the economist's notion of a 'public good' (cf. AllegroTrans's reference) for which 'a public good' is a perfectly standard English equivalent; and

le bien public: the somewhat hazier notion akin to le bien commun or the common weal, for which 'the public good' is also used in English.

It seems pretty clear to me that the second sense - the general good - is what our text is concerned with. Examples of this usage surely abound, but a couple of good examples can be plucked from French legislation:

Je promets de faire preuve de dévouement au bien public, de droiture, de dignité, de prudence et d'impartialité
This is apparently part of the oath to be sworn by gendarmes.
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/JORFTEXT000027996846?...

Le pharmacien est aussi responsable aux plans éthique et déontologique. Il a une attitude guidée par l'éthique, la déontologie et il adopte un comportement responsable, approprié, intègre, altruiste visant au bien-être personnel du patient et à la promotion du bien public.
This is from the Arrêté du 4 octobre 2019 portant organisation du troisième cycle long des études pharmaceutiques
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/JORFTEXT000039184807?...

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Note added at 21 hrs (2023-05-16 13:07:39 GMT)
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Should add that I'm aware that biens publics can also refer more concretely to public property/amenities, but again - that's not what the text appears to be driving at.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Emmanuella
1 hr
agree Daryo
23 hrs
neutral Adrian MM. : Doesn't add much to my answer that you don't even acknowledge, even if I am not exactly English 'flavo(u)r of the month'.
3 days 1 hr
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