| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: Have you ever struggled with impostor syndrome or perfectionism? Автор темы: ProZ.com Staff
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What a coincidence! Proz is offering tomorrow a live 90-minute workshop on "How to deal with perfectionism and imposter syndrome"...
| | | | Tom in London
Великобритания
Local time: 03:01
Член ProZ.com c 2008
итальянский => английский
| Hey, language professionals - watch your spelling! | Mar 22, 2022 |
Impostor is the proper spelling of this word, but imposter has also appeared frequently for several centuries. Though imposter has maintained a steady presence in English for at least two centuries, impostor has always been used more frequently and most modern style guides prescribe this spelling alone.
| | | | | Thank you, Tom! | Mar 22, 2022 |
Tom in London wrote:
Impostor is the proper spelling of this word, but imposter has also appeared frequently for several centuries. Though imposter has maintained a steady presence in English for at least two centuries, impostor has always been used more frequently and most modern style guides prescribe this spelling alone.
I just did a "copy and paste"...
| | | | | Impersonator | Mar 22, 2022 |
For decades I've been passing myself off as a reasonably competent translator, and I'm afraid it will catch up with me. I should probably retire before I get sued into penury.
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| Speak for yourself | Mar 22, 2022 |
Gerard Barry wrote:
I hate to say it but most translators kind of are imposters because we translate texts from fields that we know nothing about, using only our linguistic skills, dictionaries and Internet research to help us.
Well, I only translate within my fields of expertise and so should we all, in my opinion. Ok, there are some "orphan" fields, but then thorough research is what we do, isn't it?
| | | | Chié_JP
Япония
Local time: 11:01
Член ProZ.com c 2013
английский => японский
+ ...
| "no longer that difficult" | Mar 23, 2022 |
Now that translation job is "not that difficult" these days, considering bunch of agencies are trying to replace linguists with relatively less qualified MT engines - instead of learned humans
- I never thought all "decent" human linguists are any worse than paid engines.
(talk about decency, I receive numerous ProZ agency requests to revise terrible "works" done by non-natives from Egypt, India or China, but let's exclude these tragic cases where these agencies prioritized ... See more Now that translation job is "not that difficult" these days, considering bunch of agencies are trying to replace linguists with relatively less qualified MT engines - instead of learned humans
- I never thought all "decent" human linguists are any worse than paid engines.
(talk about decency, I receive numerous ProZ agency requests to revise terrible "works" done by non-natives from Egypt, India or China, but let's exclude these tragic cases where these agencies prioritized low price over quality or basic human rights, or just preferred to work within their timezone)
If you would like to call someone (something) an Imposter, just call these MT engines by that name
- their skill are not even at business level expected to get a job if they were humans,
but they ARE getting paid a lot more than we do.
Say, you happened to be from one of the best universities in the native country (and probably one of the notable ones in the world) and have long standing commitment as well as experience, skill and good education through the years. Do they really think "I am worse than these paid engines, therefore I am the Imposter and should earn less" and give up their job to MTs? Really?
Just for your infomration, in such a world, ProZ is no longer necessary because they do not have to ask help from linguists, simply just pay for one of the MTs of your choice, and you do not need to subscribe to paid transltor marketplace... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Justin Peterson 
Испания
Local time: 04:01
Член ProZ.com c 2007
испанский => английский
| No ... I gave up on "perfection" | Mar 23, 2022 |
No. I gave up "perfection" a long time ago.
It's funny. Nearly everyone on proz underscores that they are perfectionistic, very thorough, obsessed with quality, they go the extra mile, they pore over their work, etc. etc.
Well, this is certainly ONE way to approach translation, and may be, in some cases, an inevitable one, depending on one's personality and disposition ... or depending on their clients' needs and desires.
However, I do tend to detect an... See more No. I gave up "perfection" a long time ago.
It's funny. Nearly everyone on proz underscores that they are perfectionistic, very thorough, obsessed with quality, they go the extra mile, they pore over their work, etc. etc.
Well, this is certainly ONE way to approach translation, and may be, in some cases, an inevitable one, depending on one's personality and disposition ... or depending on their clients' needs and desires.
However, I do tend to detect an undertone that extremely thorough, almost obsessive attention to quality is the best way to approach translation, if not the only legitimate one.
I disagree.
Obsessing over one's translations, doing extensive research, proofreading multiple times, is often NOT the best way to translate, for multiple reasons, chief among them
a) It is not cost-effective. If you're spending that much time on your translations, your hourly earnings are just going to be too low, unless you are charging very high rates. If you can charge those rates, hats off, "nice work if you can get it", as they say, but many LSPs are just not in that boat.
b) Many clients do not appreciate that level of thoroughness. They don't care. They don't want a gourmet filet mignon. They want a hamburger, and they want it now, and they want it at a competitive price. Those clients are as legitimate as any other, as are the translators who serve them. They're different demands, and different services offered. Neither is better nor worse ... though I do repeatedly detect the suggestion, on proz, that the former are definitely superior, if not the only legimate translators. * If I have a filet mignon client, I adjust accordingly. But I don't consider them any better than my other clients, nor the service I provide in those cases necessarily better. It's just a different kettle of fish.
I definitely do NOT mean to suggest that I offer low-quality translations. I believe I offer high-quality translations at very competitive prices, and with good turnarounds, but I can only do that by NOT performing multiple proofreads, doing non-essential research, obsessing over small details, etc. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Justin Peterson
Испания
Local time: 04:01
Член ProZ.com c 2007
испанский => английский
Gerard Barry wrote:
All the time. I hate to say it but most translators kind of are imposters because we translate texts from fields that we know nothing about, using only our linguistic skills, dictionaries and Internet research to help us.
The thing is, at times this is inevitable, because there may be a field in which it is nearly impossible to have the exact specialization in question, or, as a PM, to even find somone who does!
When I started out as a PM years ago I wanted a specialist, a translator tailored to each and every job. I soon realized that was not viable, as either a) they could not be found b) they couldn't or wouldn't accept the job c) the client was not willing to pay for what the real experts would charge
Thus, indeed, translators are often forced to do their very best in areas where they are a bit out of their element.
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b) Many clients do not appreciate that level of thoroughness. They don't care. They don't want a gourmet filet mignon. They want a hamburger, and they want it now, and they want it at a competitive price. Those clients are as legitimate as any other, as are the translators who serve them. They're different demands, and different services offered. Neither is better nor worse ... though I do repeatedly detect the suggestion, on proz, that the former are definitely superior, if not the only legimate translators. * If I have a filet mignon client, I adjust accordingly. But I don't consider them any better than my other clients, nor the service I provide in those cases necessarily better. It's just a different kettle of fish.
I definitely do NOT mean to suggest that I offer low-quality translations. I believe I offer high-quality translations at very competitive prices, and with good turnarounds, but I can only do that by NOT performing multiple proofreads, doing non-essential research, obsessing over small details, etc.
The trouble with hamburger-type clients though is that, in a lot of cases, DEEPL will churn out a hamburger-type translation instantly and free that just needs a bit of touching up to be a clunky-but-adequate solution.
So it seems like gourmet clients will be the only ones left who will pay anything like reasonable rates.
| | | | Kay Denney
Франция
Local time: 04:01
французский => английский
Justin Peterson wrote:
a) It is not cost-effective. If you're spending that much time on your translations, your hourly earnings are just going to be too low, unless you are charging very high rates. If you can charge those rates, hats off, "nice work if you can get it", as they say, but many LSPs are just not in that boat.
b) Many clients do not appreciate that level of thoroughness. They don't care. They don't want a gourmet filet mignon. They want a hamburger, and they want it now, and they want it at a competitive price. Those clients are as legitimate as any other, as are the translators who serve them. They're different demands, and different services offered. Neither is better nor worse ... though I do repeatedly detect the suggestion, on proz, that the former are definitely superior, if not the only legimate translators. * If I have a filet mignon client, I adjust accordingly. But I don't consider them any better than my other clients, nor the service I provide in those cases necessarily better. It's just a different kettle of fish.
My work may not always be incredibly cost-effective, but it doesn't matter. First of all, because I enjoy it. And also because putting in lots of time to find the exact right word can pay off in the long run, because terminology has a habit of cropping up more than once, and because while I'm looking for one particular term, I'm coming across websites that may come in useful for other terms in later translations on the same topic.
I definitely do prefer to work for people who appreciate my approach and are prepared to pay my price.
I've found that the most difficult of clients usually softens up after a while. They keep asking questions, and I will sometimes learn more by discussing my work with them, and more often I will be able to reassure them that I do know what I'm talking about.
I've noticed that even the agencies who pay less than my usual rate will demand top quality.
So I rarely go out of my comfort zone nowadays, I'm no longer prepared to work in fields that I don't already have extensive glossaries for.
Coming back to the original question, I used to suffer from imposter syndrome. I was the only translator at an agency without any qualifications and the person who proofread most of my work was even more of a perfectionist than me. But then I managed to obtain my Master degree in translation on the strength of my experience, which boosted my self-confidence no end.
| | | | Justin Peterson
Испания
Local time: 04:01
Член ProZ.com c 2007
испанский => английский
| Well ... I don't think it's quite that simple | Mar 23, 2022 |
Rachel Waddington wrote:
b) Many clients do not appreciate that level of thoroughness. They don't care. They don't want a gourmet filet mignon. They want a hamburger, and they want it now, and they want it at a competitive price. Those clients are as legitimate as any other, as are the translators who serve them. They're different demands, and different services offered. Neither is better nor worse ... though I do repeatedly detect the suggestion, on proz, that the former are definitely superior, if not the only legimate translators. * If I have a filet mignon client, I adjust accordingly. But I don't consider them any better than my other clients, nor the service I provide in those cases necessarily better. It's just a different kettle of fish.
I definitely do NOT mean to suggest that I offer low-quality translations. I believe I offer high-quality translations at very competitive prices, and with good turnarounds, but I can only do that by NOT performing multiple proofreads, doing non-essential research, obsessing over small details, etc.
The trouble with hamburger-type clients though is that, in a lot of cases, DEEPL will churn out a hamburger-type translation instantly and free that just needs a bit of touching up to be a clunky-but-adequate solution. So it seems like gourmet clients will be the only ones left who will pay anything like reasonable rates.
Well ... there's some truth to that. But I don't think it's that black and white.
Indeed, the MT of tools like Deepl, MateCat, etc. are impressive, and translators should definitely be explouting them (how anyone could NOT be using MT in 2022 is totally beyond me, but ... to each his own; again, if they can forgo them, and charge acccordingly, more power to them, but ... good luck).
In my experience, clients, in Spain, today, are willing to pay reasonable amounts for a professional touch and good proofreading, even if they are aware of the quality of these tools.
So far, so good.
But they are just getting better and better, and I am surprised that rates have not fallen, and turnaround expectations have not increased, more than they have.
Hell, I'd love to be a Luddite, but ... I don't see how it is viable.
| | | | Justin Peterson
Испания
Local time: 04:01
Член ProZ.com c 2007
испанский => английский
| That's one way to do it ... | Mar 23, 2022 |
Kay Denney wrote: Justin Peterson wrote:
a) It is not cost-effective. If you're spending that much time on your translations, your hourly earnings are just going to be too low, unless you are charging very high rates. If you can charge those rates, hats off, "nice work if you can get it", as they say, but many LSPs are just not in that boat.
b) Many clients do not appreciate that level of thoroughness. They don't care. They don't want a gourmet filet mignon. They want a hamburger, and they want it now, and they want it at a competitive price. Those clients are as legitimate as any other, as are the translators who serve them. They're different demands, and different services offered. Neither is better nor worse ... though I do repeatedly detect the suggestion, on proz, that the former are definitely superior, if not the only legimate translators. * If I have a filet mignon client, I adjust accordingly. But I don't consider them any better than my other clients, nor the service I provide in those cases necessarily better. It's just a different kettle of fish.
My work may not always be incredibly cost-effective, but it doesn't matter. First of all, because I enjoy it. And also because putting in lots of time to find the exact right word can pay off in the long run, because terminology has a habit of cropping up more than once, and because while I'm looking for one particular term, I'm coming across websites that may come in useful for other terms in later translations on the same topic. I definitely do prefer to work for people who appreciate my approach and are prepared to pay my price. I've found that the most difficult of clients usually softens up after a while. They keep asking questions, and I will sometimes learn more by discussing my work with them, and more often I will be able to reassure them that I do know what I'm talking about. I've noticed that even the agencies who pay less than my usual rate will demand top quality. So I rarely go out of my comfort zone nowadays, I'm no longer prepared to work in fields that I don't already have extensive glossaries for. Coming back to the original question, I used to suffer from imposter syndrome. I was the only translator at an agency without any qualifications and the person who proofread most of my work was even more of a perfectionist than me. But then I managed to obtain my Master degree in translation on the strength of my experience, which boosted my self-confidence no end.
*****
I'm glad that works for you, and that's one way to do it.
There's more way than one way to skin a cat. To each his own, etc.
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Gerard Barry
Германия
Local time: 04:01
немецкий => английский
Ines Radionovas-Lagoutte, PhD wrote: Gerard Barry wrote:
I hate to say it but most translators kind of are imposters because we translate texts from fields that we know nothing about, using only our linguistic skills, dictionaries and Internet research to help us. Well, I only translate within my fields of expertise and so should we all, in my opinion. Ok, there are some "orphan" fields, but then thorough research is what we do, isn't it?
Most translators "only" have a degree in languages or translation. They are not specialists in medicine, engineering, finance, etc. I have little interest in "thorough" research as it's not always cost-effective and is very time-consuming. I do attempt to find the right terminology though.
| | | | | Perfectionistic obsessiveness | Mar 23, 2022 |
I agree with Justin's important points, especially the following:
Justin Peterson wrote:
a) It is not cost-effective. If you're spending that much time on your translations, your hourly earnings are just going to be too low, unless you are charging very high rates. If you can charge those rates, hats off, "nice work if you can get it", as they say, but many LSPs are just not in that boat.
b) Many clients do not appreciate that level of thoroughness. They don't care. They don't want a gourmet filet mignon. They want a hamburger, and they want it now, and they want it at a competitive price. {...}
Perfectionistic obsessiveness of the kind that demands extensive research, consultation with multiple colleagues, prolonged reflection, and careful consideration of all possible translation alternatives in every instance in which one is less than 100% certain of the accuracy of a given term is simply not commercially viable for most freelance translators. This was the case when times were much better for freelance translators (i.e., 7+ years ago). It is more true than ever nowadays.
| | | | Daryo
Великобритания
Local time: 03:01
сербский => английский
+ ...
| Ever? No ... Make it "very often" | Mar 23, 2022 |
I struggle very often to restrain myself when confronted with chronic cases of Dunning-Kruger syndrome.
OTOH, I fail to understand why "perfectionism" should be something to "struggle with"?
In my experience, in the long run "perfectionism" is the most efficient method, at that is before going into apparently out-of-fashion and silly concepts such as "job satisfaction".
Could whoever whose brainwave produced the pool question explain the implied unde... See more I struggle very often to restrain myself when confronted with chronic cases of Dunning-Kruger syndrome.
OTOH, I fail to understand why "perfectionism" should be something to "struggle with"?
In my experience, in the long run "perfectionism" is the most efficient method, at that is before going into apparently out-of-fashion and silly concepts such as "job satisfaction".
Could whoever whose brainwave produced the pool question explain the implied underlying logic behind it?
[Edited at 2022-03-23 16:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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