| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Poll: If you could instantly speak any language fluently, which would it be? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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… because I live in Alto Adige, which is linguistically Italian/German (and Ladin!). So that would be the most immediately useful.
| | | | Anne Maclennan 
Local time: 18:25
Member (2010)
German to English
+ ...
I have made the acquaintance of some lovely people, who are sheltering in the town nearest to the village where I live. We have shared hobby interests and I should like to be able to converse with them fluently. They have some English and limited, but improving, French. However, it seems unfair that all the effort should come from them. I have made a start with an online course and a book for beginners learning Ukrainian.
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Italian, firstly to be able to talk to my son's family. There are lots of languages I would like to be fluent in, so I can learn more about the history and culture where they are spoken, and I can get by in a small handful.
Life is too short to do them all justice, but if I could choose one, then Italian and Italy would be great for lots more than just family reasons. I must work harder at it!
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Anne Maclennan wrote:
I have made the acquaintance of some lovely people, who are sheltering in the town nearest to the village where I live. We have shared hobby interests and I should like to be able to converse with them fluently. They have some English and limited, but improving, French. However, it seems unfair that all the effort should come from them. I have made a start with an online course and a book for beginners learning Ukrainian.
If they have moved to France, then I think the impetus is on them to learn French, and not for you to learn Ukrainian.
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 18:25
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| They don't speak "German" in South Tyrol | Feb 23 |
Sarah Elizabeth wrote:
… because I live in Alto Adige, which is linguistically Italian/German (and Ladin!). So that would be the most immediately useful.
We - welcome! - speak a Bajuwaric dialect that German people from the North hardly understand. We only speak German with tourists and at school. 
In turn, this is the only Italian region where "pure" Italian is spoken, for historical reasons - many Italian-speaking people from various other regions moved to this formerly Austrian region during Fascism. This resulted in a "high Italian" not spoken in other regions, but with simpler grammar and vocabulary than Tuscan or Southern Italian.
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Zea_Mays wrote: Sarah Elizabeth wrote:
… because I live in Alto Adige, which is linguistically Italian/German (and Ladin!). So that would be the most immediately useful. We - welcome! - speak a Bajuwaric dialect that German people from the North hardly understand. We only speak German with tourists and at school. In turn, this is the only Italian region where "pure" Italian is spoken, for historical reasons - many Italian-speaking people from various other regions moved to this formerly Austrian region during Fascism. This resulted in a "high Italian" not spoken in other regions, but with simpler grammar and vocabulary than Tuscan or Southern Italian.
I didn't realize you were in Alto Adige! I guess I should have specified ... my son is in bilingual school here, German/Italian, and I'd like to be able to help him more with the German (which I studied in graduate school, but that was a long, long time ago). A German friend of mine said, when I told her I was having trouble telling who was speaking German and who was speaking dialect: If you can kind of understand what they are saying, it's German. If you are totally lost, is dialect.
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 18:25
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| aufi - oi - ummi ... | Feb 23 |
Sarah Elizabeth wrote: Zea_Mays wrote: Sarah Elizabeth wrote:
… because I live in Alto Adige, which is linguistically Italian/German (and Ladin!). So that would be the most immediately useful. We - welcome! - speak a Bajuwaric dialect that German people from the North hardly understand. We only speak German with tourists and at school. In turn, this is the only Italian region where "pure" Italian is spoken, for historical reasons - many Italian-speaking people from various other regions moved to this formerly Austrian region during Fascism. This resulted in a "high Italian" not spoken in other regions, but with simpler grammar and vocabulary than Tuscan or Southern Italian. I didn't realize you were in Alto Adige! I guess I should have specified ... my son is in bilingual school here, German/Italian, and I'd like to be able to help him more with the German (which I studied in graduate school, but that was a long, long time ago). A German friend of mine said, when I told her I was having trouble telling who was speaking German and who was speaking dialect: If you can kind of understand what they are saying, it's German. If you are totally lost, is dialect.
There is a nice and funny infographics-book about South Tyrol (for example the many variants of one word by valleys): https://www.amazon.it/Total-alles-Südtirol-Hermann-Gummerer/dp/385256607X
[Bearbeitet am 2024-02-23 15:50 GMT]
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| Can you clarify please? | Feb 23 |
Zea_Mays wrote:
this is the only Italian region where "pure" Italian is spoken, for historical reasons - many Italian-speaking people from various other regions moved to this formerly Austrian region during Fascism. This resulted in a "high Italian" not spoken in other regions, but with simpler grammar and vocabulary than Tuscan or Southern Italian.
I am not sure I understand what you mean because unless you are referring to dialects I can assure you that Italian spoken in Piedmont, Lombardy and Liguria is correct Italian "pure"? Not sure what "high Italian" not spoken in other regions is.
Perhaps can you provide an example to me?
Thanks a lot!
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 18:25
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| no local Italian dialects | Feb 23 |
Angie Garbarino wrote: Zea_Mays wrote:
this is the only Italian region where "pure" Italian is spoken, for historical reasons - many Italian-speaking people from various other regions moved to this formerly Austrian region during Fascism. This resulted in a "high Italian" not spoken in other regions, but with simpler grammar and vocabulary than Tuscan or Southern Italian. I am not sure I understand what you mean because unless you are referring to dialects I can assure you that Italian spoken in Piedmont, Lombardy and Liguria is correct Italian "pure"? Not sure what "high Italian" not spoken in other regions is. Perhaps can you provide an example to me? Thanks a lot!
South Tyrolean Italian is "high" Italian spoken in everyday life, there is no local Italian dialect except for some groups coming from the same region (Trentino, Veneto, Lombardia and others), and it has a particular "sound". During my studies in another Italian region a docent who heard me speaking Italian said: No doubt, you come from South Tyrol, only you speak this Italian. Let's call it "book" Italian.
Italian spoken in other regions is very different, and each region has its different many dialects that have naturally developed there over time. The Italian in South Tyrol is "artificial" because of Italian speaking people coming from different regions not long ago. Before Fascism, there were far way less Italian speaking people in the region, and I suppose they spoke a dialect from Trentino.
I'm short of time for a thorough research, but here is a short text to start with: https://www.altoadigecultura.org/pdf/r09_04.html
You can use "italiano parlato in alto adige" for a web search.
[Bearbeitet am 2024-02-23 16:50 GMT]
| | | | | Still not clear to me | Feb 23 |
Zea_Mays wrote: Angie Garbarino wrote: Zea_Mays wrote:
this is the only Italian region where "pure" Italian is spoken, for historical reasons - many Italian-speaking people from various other regions moved to this formerly Austrian region during Fascism. This resulted in a "high Italian" not spoken in other regions, but with simpler grammar and vocabulary than Tuscan or Southern Italian. I am not sure I understand what you mean because unless you are referring to dialects I can assure you that Italian spoken in Piedmont, Lombardy and Liguria is correct Italian "pure"? Not sure what "high Italian" not spoken in other regions is. Perhaps can you provide an example to me? Thanks a lot! South Tyrolean Italian is "high" Italian spoken in everyday life, there is no local Italian dialect except for some groups coming from the same region (Trentino, Veneto, Lombardia and others), and it has a particular "sound". During my studies in another Italian region a docent who heard me speaking Italian said: No doubt, you come from South Tyrol, only you speak this Italian. Let's call it "book" Italian. Italian spoken in other regions is very different, and each region has its different many dialects that have naturally developed there over time. The Italian in South Tyrol is "artificial" because of Italian speaking people coming from different regions not long ago. Before Fascism, there were far way less Italian speaking people in the region, and I suppose they spoke a dialect from Trentino. [Bearbeitet am 2024-02-23 16:39 GMT]
Well I do not understand, because for example in my region Piedmont, people under 80 (eighty) hardly know the dialect. They speak correct Italian.
I beg to disagree, and I repeat. Can you provide me an example?
Because I am under the impression that you are mixing a lot here. South or Central Italy do use a sort of Italian influenced by dialect when they speak, but this is not true for North West regions.
Please kindly provide example of sentences in "High Italian" (which does not seem to exist).
Best wishes
PS. I see now you provided a link, thanks I will check, but remember not every region is influenced by dialect
[Edited at 2024-02-23 16:55 GMT]
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Zea_Mays wrote: Italian spoken in other regions is very different, and each region has its different many dialects that have naturally developed there over time. The Italian in South Tyrol is "artificial" because of Italian speaking people coming from different regions not long ago. Before Fascism, there were far way less Italian speaking people in the region, and I suppose they spoke a dialect from Trentino. I'm short of time for a thorough research, but here is a short text to start with: https://www.altoadigecultura.org/pdf/r09_04.html You can use "italiano parlato in alto adige" for a web search.
Ok Bolzano's Italian is peculiar and artificial but this does not mean neither pure nor high. Like I already said, correct (book?) Italian is spoken in many regions with NO dialect influence, this can be true for Lazio (for example), but not only. Surely NOT for Piedmont or Lombardy.
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Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 18:25
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Angie Garbarino wrote:
Ok Bolzano's Italian is peculiar and artificial but this does not mean neither pure nor high. Like I already said, correct (book?) Italian is spoken in many regions with NO dialect influence, this can be true for Lazio (for example), but not only. Surely NOT for Piedmont or Lombardy.
You may want to come to South Tyrol for a while to check(hear) it out for yourself.
| | | | Cecília Alves
Argentina
Local time: 13:25
Member (2011)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Tom in London wrote: ProZ.com Staff wrote: This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "If you could instantly speak any language fluently, which would it be?". This poll was originally submitted by Iulia Parvu. View the poll results » Arabic, Spanish, Brazilian Portuguese, Russian. And then others.
Interesting you mentioned Brazilian Portuguese. That's a surprise...
| | | | | I did not say it is not artificial or peculiar | Feb 23 |
Zea_Mays wrote: You may want to come to South Tyrol for a while to check(hear) it out for yourself.
But I doubt you can call it "pure" and "high Italian".
By the way I was in Bolzano a couple of times and I spoke Italian.
[Edited at 2024-02-23 17:20 GMT]
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