This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
vous menez votre petite vie
VADisé
Sep 17, 2018 11:48
5 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term

associer le rôle de l’artiste

French to English Other Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting Collective outdoor art project
Hi all,

This term comes from an article about the following collective outdoor art project in Brussels: https://www.rtbf.be/vivacite/emissions/detail_aller-retour-b...

The text is being translate from French (Belgium) into English (United Kingdom).

The context is as follows:

"Objectifs du projet : ... associer le rôle de l’artiste qui « bouscule » et accompagne le public dans une réflexion critique sur des thématiques sociétales, en intégrant la médiation culturelle dans le projet artistique."

Many thanks in advance for your help :)
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 site the role of the artist (within)
5 -1 associate the role of the artist
4 -1 to involve the artist's role
3 to connect the role of the artist
4 -1 To link the artist's scheme
3 -1 to combine the role of the artist (with)

Discussion

Odette Grille (X) Sep 28, 2018:
Ah !!! Un "à" à la place d'un "et" et tout change.
Tony M Sep 28, 2018:
@ Asker Ah yes, in that case, it does indeed look like the first version is a typo — "associer le rôle de l'artiste À l'artiste qui..." suddenly makes a whole lot more sense!
Tony M Sep 28, 2018:
@ SafeTex Here, I would undesratnd it with the sense of 'placer', 'positionner', 'localiser', 'situer' (the latter being of course the closest to the literal meaning).
SafeTex Sep 28, 2018:
to site the role of the artist Hello

I just don't get this phrase. Surely it's not a typo as it has a couple of agrees.
What does this mean please?
Thanks
philgoddard Sep 17, 2018:
That looks like the answer to your question. The first version of the sentence is garbled, but the second makes perfect sense.
Matt Valentine (asker) Sep 17, 2018:
I agree that it's a poorly constructed sentence It is used a little later on in the text too, but with an 'à':

"Il s’agit là d’un premier pas vers un développement social de la ville et une forme d’émancipation atteinte au travers d’une formulation de pensée, d’un éveil de la critique et d’une réflexibilité sur le monde par le biais artistique et culturel en associant le rôle de l’artiste qui « bouscule » à l’artiste qui accompagne le public dans une réflexion critique sur des thématiques sociétales."
Lorraine Dubuc Sep 17, 2018:
@Matthew Interesting to see the entire sentence, however 'associer' does not make sense with anything. On associe quelque chose 'à' quelque chose, ni 'en' ni 'dans'.
Matt Valentine (asker) Sep 17, 2018:
Please find the whole sentence below. Objectifs du projet : interpeller les habitants d’un territoire, susciter la réflexion, stimuler l’ouverture du regard, la découverte et l’expérimentation par le biais artistique et culturel ; favoriser les rencontres et les échanges conviviaux et festifs : permettre bien-être, plaisir, curiosité, partage, émotion, ouvrir des espaces d’ expression pour tous ; déployer des actions autour de projets participatifs notamment vers des publics « non touchés » et des lieux « non-culturels »/en friche/inattendus/« trans-frontières » ; agir dans une logique de décloisonnement tant territorial que des publics (mixité culturelle, jeunesse et intergénérationnel) ; permettre aux publics de s’approprier le projet et de participer à l’évolution de son histoire : favoriser leur mobilité sur le territoire bruxellois ; associer le rôle de l’artiste qui « bouscule » et accompagne le public dans une réflexion critique sur des thématiques sociétales, en intégrant la médiation culturelle dans le projet artistique.
Lorraine Dubuc Sep 17, 2018:
my understanding of the sentence The purpose of the project is to combine the role of the artist who is ‘shaking up’ and accompanying the audience, with a critical reflection about societal issues, while integrating arts outreach into the artistic project.
Helen Shiner Sep 17, 2018:
Agree I also agree with all the comments re 'dans' here. I was just trying to suggest what the author probably wanted to say. Siting something within a discourse is pretty much critical theory-speak, and maybe the author got things a little around his/her neck. But clumsy French, it is true.
Lorraine Dubuc Sep 17, 2018:
'dans' is the problem in the sentence On associe quelque chose 'à' et non 'dans'. Remplacez 'dans' par 'à' et vous verrez la phrase prendre tout son sens.
philgoddard Sep 17, 2018:
Agree with Tony It's not clear what you've left out with your ellipsis but, assuming it's nothing important, I think you'd be justified in mending the broken sentence by adding a few words of your own.
Tony M Sep 17, 2018:
@ Asker To me, the trouble here seems to be that there is no obvious indirect object for 'associer' — normally, you'd expect to 'associate' something with something else, but the FR sentence appears flawed in this respect — the only candidate might be: "associer le rôle... dans le projet artistique"; but not only is 'associer dans' perhaps a little odd, but it also rather clashes with the notion of 'en intégrant dans...'

Is there another transitive use of 'associer' that I am missing here?
Helen Shiner Sep 17, 2018:
Or perhaps more simply "embed". Anyway, that is the meaning here. To see the role of these artists from within the context of critical 'réflexion'.
Helen Shiner Sep 17, 2018:
@Matthew A bit more context is needed really, but how about something like "bring into conjunction with" or "site within the context of". Depends on your audience and whether they are members of the public or academics/artists au fait with art world terminology.

Proposed translations

+1
2 hrs
Selected

site the role of the artist (within)

This would be my reading as an art historian. See my comments in the discussion box. I think the 'dans' is important and not a replacement for 'à', even if the author perhaps chose a rather clumsy verb to start the phrase. I believe he/she is saying they want to look at the role of the artist within the context of critical considerations/discourse, in other words, look at how artists respond to such theoretical concerns, or may be understood from the vantage point of such theory. 'To link' is too weak.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2018-09-17 14:03:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You may need to go back to the client, however, to query this.
Peer comment(s):
agree Eliza Hall : Yes, that translates both the concept and the tone -- it really sounds like art-speak! :)
6 hrs
Thank you, Eliza ;-)
agree writeaway :
19 hrs
Thanks, writeaway
disagree Mohamed Hosni : It's not at all " site ".Never mind your agree or your disagree. What reason are you looking for?. "associer" it's associate.
5 days
I disagree with you. And you give no reason./Associate does not work in this context, which I know well as an art historian. So, I'll be ignoring your disagree and hope the asker does, too.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, Helen! :)"
-1
2 hrs

to combine the role of the artist (with)

For example, make the artist take part into something other than the role he is playing. Have his character make people think some things over and stimulate their interest towards arts.
Example sentence:

to combine the role of the artist with a societal purpose

Peer comment(s):
disagree Mohamed Hosni : "to combine" !.
5 days
Something went wrong...
-1
7 hrs

to involve the artist's role

as "disruptor"...etc
Peer comment(s):
disagree Mohamed Hosni : It's just " associate ".
4 days
Something went wrong...
1 hr

to connect the role of the artist

I have my doubts as to the comments some have posted stating that the French is just clunky and the thing the artist is to be associated with is the "réflexion critique." I think we need to see the whole sentence (i.e. the words that the OP replaced with an ellipsis).

As I read this partial sentence that Matthew posted, it should be: "...to connect the role of the artist who 'disrupts' and accompanies the public in a critical reflection on societal themes, by integrating cultural mediation into the artistic project."

IOW I read it as a sentence fragment that doesn't include the thing that's being connected with the artist. If we're going with the other commenter's suggestion, however, and taking the "réflexion critique" as the thing being connected with the artist (i.e. if we're accepting that the French original is somewhere between clunky and incorrect), then it would be:

"...to connect the role of the artist who 'disrupts' and accompanies the public with a critical reflection on societal themes, by integrating cultural mediation into the artistic project."

I don't think that makes sense, though. Artists don't just "accompany the public." By itself that makes no sense, which is what makes me read it as the artist accompanying the public in a critical reflection.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2018-09-17 13:44:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PS Matthew would you mind posting the entire sentence (i.e. not the version with the ellipsis)?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2018-09-17 21:03:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the complete sentence! Here's my suggested translation of it. The original is a little po-mo/artsy, obviously, so my translation is too. Starting the sentence off with this makes sense without any context, but I might kick off differently if I could see what preceded it ("Il s’agit là" can be translated several different ways):

This is a first step toward the city's social development and a form of emancipation achieved by the means of a reframing, an awakening of critical faculties, and a reflectiveness about the world through art and culture, by connecting the role of the artist who 'disrupts' and accompanies the public with a critical reflection on societal themes, integrating cultural mediation into the artistic project.

Original as posted by Matthew:

"Il s’agit là d’un premier pas vers un développement social de la ville et une forme d’émancipation atteinte au travers d’une formulation de pensée, d’un éveil de la critique et d’une réflexibilité sur le monde par le biais artistique et culturel en associant le rôle de l’artiste qui « bouscule » à l’artiste qui accompagne le public dans une réflexion critique sur des thématiques sociétales."
Peer comment(s):
agree Ben Gaia : I agree with your take, but you could use "involve" see my answer.
5 hrs
disagree Mohamed Hosni : Not " to connect " !!!.
5 days
Something went wrong...
-1
5 days

associate the role of the artist

Suggestion,
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : Not good English, sorry. We just don't say this.
7 mins
Not good comment. It's not we who say, it's languages which do.
disagree Lorraine Dubuc : Very bad English Mohamed. Sorry.
23 hrs
Very bad an very wrong comment Lorraine!
Something went wrong...
-1
10 mins

To link the artist's scheme

or purpose

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 days (2018-09-28 11:00:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Il se pourrait qu'il y ait un "lui" avant ou un "y" avant assoxcier,

lui associer
y associer
Peer comment(s):
disagree Mohamed Hosni : No, c'est pas du tout 'to link".
5 days
Ah ? http://crisco.unicaen.fr/des/synonymes/lier
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search