| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | CPD (Continuing Professional Development) question Thread poster: Pascal Zotto
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| How much maths? | Jan 16, 2023 |
Denis Fesik wrote: Rachel Waddington wrote:
For example, you will never become an engineering expert though translation alone because you have to start by gaining a thorough grounding in maths which has to be built up bit by bit I've always found the math portion of engineering texts relatively easy to translate; there are other things that make engineering translations more difficult than they would be with just the math and no engineer speak. And I do agree that anything less than a university course won't give you a solid enough foundation in math. I'd sure love to know much more about math than I currently do, but I don't think this knowledge will make me a better translator, it's just that math is beautiful. Too bad I don't have the time and leisure to keep cracking ever harder problems as if I were still in my early student years and didn't have to earn a living. A random observation to wrap up the post: the biggest online Eng-Rus dictionary does contain two translations for "real ananlysis" and one for "complex analysis," but none of them is correct. So, you never know what pitfalls could be waiting for you if you've taken on a math translation project while having no clue as to what the source text is saying
It depends really what you are translating - if you're translating an operating manual you won't need much maths but if you're translating a journal article that relies heavily on equations to make its point then I think you should be following the mathematical argument as well as the words. You should understand what you're translating, right?
| | | | Kaspars Melkis 
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:18
English to Latvian
+ ...
Ice Scream wrote:
Most of my “CPD” is just reading the financial press to absorb new jargon. At the end of the day, I’m a linguist, not an economist. I’m regurgitating someone else’s analysis, not producing my own.
Sometimes just reading is not enough. For example, signs and symptoms mean slightly different things (signs are observed by doctor and symptoms are what patient reports) but I have never encountered a text in my translation that explains this. Even the Latvian drug regulator has put their glossary on their website suggesting that they both should be translated with the same word symptoms. This is wrong and some otherwise very good translators even working in medical field without this basic understanding have accepted this suggestion.
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Kaspars Melkis wrote:
Sometimes just reading is not enough. For example, signs and symptoms mean slightly different things (signs are observed by doctor and symptoms are what patient reports) but I have never encountered a text in my translation that explains this. Even the Latvian drug regulator has put their glossary on their website suggesting that they both should be translated with the same word symptoms. This is wrong and some otherwise very good translators even working in medical field without this basic understanding have accepted this suggestion.
So how come I knew that despite not having trained as a doctor?
A degree in any subject is basically about learning by reading.
| | | | Kaspars Melkis
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:18
English to Latvian
+ ...
Ice Scream wrote:
So how come I knew that despite not having trained as a doctor?
A degree in any subject is basically about learning by reading.
I meant by reading only texts you translate. You probably got lucky to stumble upon and learn it. So how come that the linguist working for the medicines regulator didn't know that?
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 21:18
Member
English to Turkish
| The truth is... | Jan 17, 2023 |
Although nobody wants to admit it, most of the people here, myself included, (with the exception of Rachel, it seems) are jacks-of-all-trades. I'm sure Ice Scream will translate anything from pharmaceutical and medical texts to business, marketing and fashion texts (ain't that the violation of the cardinal rule?)
You can fashion yourself as an English to Turkish HVAC translator (or even more broadly as a 'technical translator') and do your marketing accordingly, and you'll go hungry in no ... See more Although nobody wants to admit it, most of the people here, myself included, (with the exception of Rachel, it seems) are jacks-of-all-trades. I'm sure Ice Scream will translate anything from pharmaceutical and medical texts to business, marketing and fashion texts (ain't that the violation of the cardinal rule?)
You can fashion yourself as an English to Turkish HVAC translator (or even more broadly as a 'technical translator') and do your marketing accordingly, and you'll go hungry in no time in the European translation market. But you can be a Dutch or Swedish or German to English HVAC translator and you can get by okay (because the jobs in those pairs are more frequent than in Turkish), then you can attend the HVAC seminars, fairs and visit factories, plants etc. to your heart's content.
We, the jacks-of-all-trades (and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that description), have no time for doing crash courses on ECG devices, dental implants, engineering, Keynesian economics etc.
You can pursue all these as an hobby if you like, but if I've learned one thing in 6 years as a freelancer (actually I should say 3 years because since then my workload has increased), it's that freelance translation and hobbies don't mix, or I haven't yet found a way to accommodate them. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Still on the job | Jan 17, 2023 |
Kaspars Melkis wrote:
I meant by reading only texts you translate.
But who only reads texts they translate? Apart from just general reading, and listening, and being alive, which all constantly enrich a curious person's knowledge and vocabulary, a translator carries out research as a natural part of their job. For every 1000 words I translate, I might read another 5000 in that field (complete guess, but the point stands).
You probably got lucky to stumble upon and learn it.
Nice.
So how come that the linguist working for the medicines regulator didn't know that?
Because they're a translator who doesn't know enough about the area and shouldn't be doing that translation (or is having a bad day). It doesn't mean everyone without a degree in medicine is going to make a hash of that translation.
There are bad translators who do formal CPD and good translators who don't. Everyone is different.
Baran wrote:
Although nobody wants to admit it, most of the people here, myself included, (with the exception of Rachel, it seems) are jacks-of-all-trades. I'm sure Ice Scream will translate anything from pharmaceutical and medical texts to business, marketing and fashion texts (ain't that the violation of the cardinal rule?)
Ooh darling, that stings. Fashion is a hard no. I never mix business with pleasure...
In reality I'm a jack of very few trades, but I take your point. OTOH I find it hard to believe Rachel only ever translates wind turbine specs, or that her wind turbine texts never have any legal or marketing content. We are all pragmatic to some degree.
And, as you say, there are big differences between markets and their needs. For example, most properly technical economics texts will be written in English to start with, not translated from another language. So the economics I translate is very different. The meaning and terminology are rarely an issue; my challenge is making it a joy to read.
And when I did 15,000 words on wind turbines recently, all I really had to know was not to call them windmills. One size doesn't fit all.
| | | | Kaspars Melkis
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:18
English to Latvian
+ ...
| be charitable | Jan 17, 2023 |
Baran Keki wrote:
Although nobody wants to admit it, most of the people here, myself included, (with the exception of Rachel, it seems) are jacks-of-all-trades. I'm sure Ice Scream will translate anything from pharmaceutical and medical texts to business, marketing and fashion texts (ain't that the violation of the cardinal rule?)
I don't believe that it is true about Ice Scream. He seemed to be specializing in his niche of banking sector.
Translation agencies probably are more diverse. I know that some are boutique, working for few client in specific industry, but generally from agency's point of view anything that can increase their business is good. Some translation jobs will be from clients who are less picky about quality.
You would think that the documents that get submitted to the medicines regulator will always be of high quality. In reality sometimes they get machine translated rubbish. It is hard to measure translation quality and companies will try to provide the lowest quality that is still accepted. It is just business.
Only when we will have strict standards to evaluate translation quality and the need for it, we can talk clearly why specialization is good. So far it is just art, common sense and marketing.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 21:18
Member
English to Turkish
| No offense inteded | Jan 17, 2023 |
Kaspars Melkis wrote:
I don't believe that it is true about Ice Scream. He seemed to be specializing in his niche of banking sector.
I didn't mean to have a go at Ice Scream, who's a highly esteemed colleague and one of my role models as a translator. You can replace his name with anybody's, including mine. I'm sure he's working primarily on banking related stuff, but he must be getting and accepting requests outside his field every now and then to make ends meet.
Except for those specializing in highly niche fields and fortunate enough to have found good and regular (direct) clients demanding high quality translations in those fields, I don't believe for a second that 'everybody has their own specialisms and work only in particular fields'. Well, they may be doing that 80% of the time, but getting themselves involved in other stuff 20% of the time (at a very conservative estimate), and that 'breaks the rule', if you know what I mean?
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| A generalist but not a jack-of-all-trades | Jan 17, 2023 |
I started out translating some 40 years ago as a generalist but pretty quickly realized that there are certain types of text I’m not qualified to handle or that I simply don’t enjoy. So, slowly but surely over the years I left some areas I wasn’t comfortable with and gained experience in others, sometimes through self-teaching and area-specific training. Nowadays, most of my jobs are related to EU matters (social and economic affairs, migration, health, e-learning, corruption, money launde... See more I started out translating some 40 years ago as a generalist but pretty quickly realized that there are certain types of text I’m not qualified to handle or that I simply don’t enjoy. So, slowly but surely over the years I left some areas I wasn’t comfortable with and gained experience in others, sometimes through self-teaching and area-specific training. Nowadays, most of my jobs are related to EU matters (social and economic affairs, migration, health, e-learning, corruption, money laundering, food, agriculture, regional development…). I still consider myself a generalist but not a jack-of-all-trades. Some projects I do not do at all and will be happy to tell a potential client when I cannot help him or her. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kaspars Melkis
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:18
English to Latvian
+ ...
| I specialize | Jan 17, 2023 |
I have a couple of old clients for whom I provide translations in other fields. I still work out of loyalty and also because I worked with their texts (one is manuals, the other one is corporate documents) and I am very familiar with them. But they constitute less than 10% or even 5% of my translation income, they pay less than in my main specialization and therefore I should ditch them. All my new clients are in medical field. I actively reject all other job offers that are not medically or pha... See more I have a couple of old clients for whom I provide translations in other fields. I still work out of loyalty and also because I worked with their texts (one is manuals, the other one is corporate documents) and I am very familiar with them. But they constitute less than 10% or even 5% of my translation income, they pay less than in my main specialization and therefore I should ditch them. All my new clients are in medical field. I actively reject all other job offers that are not medically or pharmaceutically related. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 20:18
French to English
Lieven Malaise wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
No, the opposite is true. It is very easy for a translator to fall into a comfortable rut where he learns nothing new.
How? Almost every single text has its terminological challenges. So you have to read about the subject to determine how you should translate them. With the texts I am translating it is virtually impossible not to learn something new. And to be honest, I think that applies to a very large number of translators. Apart from that you always have to make sure you convey the exact meaning of your text. I see no way to take your translation assignments lightly if you take your business seriously. There is always some kind of pressure to do your job right, even if the source text isn't the hardest to translate (perhaps there's even more pressure in the last case).
Unfortunately, as a former PM, I can assure you that Samuel is right. There were way more translators on our "do not use" list than in our database of reliable translators. Some seemed to just replace French words with English until Word no longer underlined anything. Others didn't even bother to use the spell check. Once, I was able to prove that the translator hadn't used Google as the client was claiming, simply because Google doesn't make that many spelling mistakes.
I had a zoom meeting with a client the other day, to clear up all my questions. We spent a good hour looking at all the anomalies in the source text, trying to determine what the author meant, so I could be sure that the translation was right. She thanked me profusely at the end, saying that I was the first translator she had worked with who had literally googled every single name of every single person, institute, company or organisation to check whether they were spelled right. I was going to say that it went without saying, then I remembered that only about 5% of translators who did tests at the agency would check the name of the company mentioned (and there was a spelling mistake in it).
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 20:18
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
I agree and know that way too many fellow translators are incapable, easy-money-chasing, non-caring sorry excuses for a translator, but to me that's not the same as 'falling into a comfortable rut where you learn nothing new' (I can somehow imagine that it still must be possible to deliver more or less acceptable work in that state). What you are describing is simply (very) unprofessional behaviour.
[Edited at 2023-01-18 12:11 GMT]
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Lieven Malaise wrote:
I agree and know that way too many fellow translators are incapable, easy-money-chasing, non-caring sorry excuses for a translator, but to me that's not the same as 'falling into a comfortable rut where you learn nothing new' (I can somehow imagine that it still must be possible to deliver more or less acceptable work in that state). What you are describing is simply (very) unprofessional behaviour.
[Edited at 2023-01-18 12:11 GMT]
There’s a world of difference between falling into a comfortable routine and being unprofessional and incompetent…
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 21:18
Member
English to Turkish
Kay Denney wrote:
Unfortunately, as a former PM, I can assure you that Samuel is right. There were way more translators on our "do not use" list than in our database of reliable translators. Some seemed to just replace French words with English until Word no longer underlined anything. Others didn't even bother to use the spell check. Once, I was able to prove that the translator hadn't used Google as the client was claiming, simply because Google doesn't make that many spelling mistakes.
I had a zoom meeting with a client the other day, to clear up all my questions. We spent a good hour looking at all the anomalies in the source text, trying to determine what the author meant, so I could be sure that the translation was right. She thanked me profusely at the end, saying that I was the first translator she had worked with who had literally googled every single name of every single person, institute, company or organisation to check whether they were spelled right. I was going to say that it went without saying, then I remembered that only about 5% of translators who did tests at the agency would check the name of the company mentioned (and there was a spelling mistake in it).
You were a former PM of a 'boutique translation agency', right? You know, those that pay more than 12 cents per word, provide more than generous deadlines, and wait for hours for their translators to reply to their emails? This really puts things into perspective for me. Why the f.ck am I wasting my time Googling every single word, trying to find the best and most natural sounding phrases and wordings for multinationals when the translators of boutique agencies don't give a shit? I think I'll increase my capacity going forward. Thanks Kay.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 20:18
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Baran Keki wrote:
and wait for hours for their translators to reply to their emails?
I doubt there are many agencies out there that provide that 'service' to their translators. Unless, perhaps, they know more or less for sure their translator will be available.
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