| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Low rates and LWAs Thread poster: Josephine Cassar
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Josephine Cassar 
Malta
Local time: 07:33
Member (2012)
English to Maltese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hi all, I am coming back to the subject of low rates as last weekend, I lost a big job just because i did not accept a rate of €0.03- I wanted €0.045, still a low rate but knew country would only offer such rates- per word. Company said it had found someone who had offered €0.05, so I had better accept. When tried to negotiate for the €0.045 rate, as it was a technical job and needed for the following day, company did not answer, then later told me it had found someone else who accepted ... See more Hi all, I am coming back to the subject of low rates as last weekend, I lost a big job just because i did not accept a rate of €0.03- I wanted €0.045, still a low rate but knew country would only offer such rates- per word. Company said it had found someone who had offered €0.05, so I had better accept. When tried to negotiate for the €0.045 rate, as it was a technical job and needed for the following day, company did not answer, then later told me it had found someone else who accepted a rate of €0.04. It means I lost a big job and probably the chance of working again with the company which probably has big projects.
Yhe same thing happened yesterday. I was sent an email via ProZ and the company wanted me to review a translation and to quote a rate. Maybe the rate I quoted was high- I quoted €23-27 an hour, depending on whether I would have to do the work again, work needed for today and from translated work, not from source language. Another client lost and no answer when I asked if quote was acceptable. Though email was personalised, it was probably sent to others who had my language pairs.So situation is either we accept low rates, or we lose out. Seems the effect of the financial crisis is either hitting translation business or work is only available from places that pay low rates or companies taking advantage of financial crisis and accepting only low rates, while they make a profit. Any ideas? Thank you all. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Avoid low rates and get plenty of work-translate into hard to find languages | Apr 12, 2013 |
When Malta joined the EU, there was a lot of panic in Brussels because it was proving very difficult to find enough people who could translate into Maltese.
Why not list languages you can translate into Maltese at the top of the languages you offer instead of listing combinations that are very common and offered by thousands of people (such as It-En, Fr-En). That way you could actually have a steady stream of work and at decent rates, because the old 'we have found someone else who will do... See more When Malta joined the EU, there was a lot of panic in Brussels because it was proving very difficult to find enough people who could translate into Maltese.
Why not list languages you can translate into Maltese at the top of the languages you offer instead of listing combinations that are very common and offered by thousands of people (such as It-En, Fr-En). That way you could actually have a steady stream of work and at decent rates, because the old 'we have found someone else who will do it for less' gimmick won't really work with such a hard to find target language.
Also, if someone knowingly accepts a job at a low rate, they can hardly criticize the agency for that low rate on the Blueboard. I generally feel that 'who' has worked for a given agency is a more telling sign than comments people make. After all, if one wants more work from them, it 'pays' to give the agency a glowing BB rating. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Josephine Cassar
Malta
Local time: 07:33
Member (2012)
English to Maltese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hi Writeaway, just been asked to do same job!!!Your suggestion is good but you do not find many jobs in those language pairs and only from certain countries that pay low rates, and many novice translators offer low rates, so my rate does not get accepted. There are no questions/answers in my language pairs on KudoZ; no answered when I asked. Also I was contacted for editing for Italian/English and training is only for common languages- French/Italian/German. I am doing an online course to get a... See more Hi Writeaway, just been asked to do same job!!!Your suggestion is good but you do not find many jobs in those language pairs and only from certain countries that pay low rates, and many novice translators offer low rates, so my rate does not get accepted. There are no questions/answers in my language pairs on KudoZ; no answered when I asked. Also I was contacted for editing for Italian/English and training is only for common languages- French/Italian/German. I am doing an online course to get a proper translation qualification but not available in Maltese. I will try and put Maltese further up but want t be able to answer KudoZ in Italian, English or French, not remove the possibility. Thank you for your help, appreciate ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Confusion about KudoZ? | Apr 12, 2013 |
Josephine Cassar wrote:
I will try and put Maltese further up but want t be able to answer KudoZ in Italian, English or French, not remove the possibility.
You can answer KudoZ questions in ANY language pair.
It does not depend on the order in which your languages are listed on your profile.
In fact, you can answer questions in pairs you did not list at all.
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| It is a public forum - and a few suggestions | Apr 12, 2013 |
Josephine,
Are you aware, that the ProZ forums are public and are indexed by Google, therefore anything you write can be read by anybody?
If you state such low rates as acceptable for you, don't be surprised if many clients would expect you to charge those rates.
I would suggest you to consider the following:
- Focus on translating into Maltese (as others suggested, this may be your niche)
- Forget about translating into English from common languages (it is h... See more Josephine,
Are you aware, that the ProZ forums are public and are indexed by Google, therefore anything you write can be read by anybody?
If you state such low rates as acceptable for you, don't be surprised if many clients would expect you to charge those rates.
I would suggest you to consider the following:
- Focus on translating into Maltese (as others suggested, this may be your niche)
- Forget about translating into English from common languages (it is hard to compete in those pairs, as many translators are true native English speakers with excellent writing skills)
- Expand your job search beyond ProZ.com (ProZ represents only a very small slice of the market)
- You wrote "many novice translators offer low rates" - well, if you can produce work that is not novice, then you should distinguish yourself from them by not offering low rates, otherwise you are putting yourself into the same category. It will be hard to get out of it, if you tie up your time with large, demanding, but low-paying projects.
- Make sure your "per word" and "hourly" rates are aligned. You want to earn approximately the same amount of money in an hour, whether you are translating or editing or proofreading. You should know from experience how many words you can translate in an hour (I am not talking about maximum burst performance, but sustained speed over several hours), then multiply it by your "per word" rate. Is that in line with your hourly rate? It is generally accepted that a professional translator can translate about 2000-2500 words in a normal 8-hour workday, that means approx. 250-300 words per hour. If your speed is significantly slower, than you need more practice, otherwise, you will only be able to accept jobs that have a longer than standard deadline. (Those are not too frequent these days.)
- Try not to accept low rates out of desperation. If needed, find another part time job to have another source of income until you build up your professional translation business to be able to depend on it. That way you can comfortably reject low offers, not locking yourself into the lower strata of the market, and have the opportunity to look for decent jobs.
I hope this helps.
Katalin
[Edited at 2013-04-12 13:23 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:33
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| If I can pick up on points addressed to writeaway | Apr 12, 2013 |
Josephine Cassar wrote:
you do not find many jobs in those language pairs and only from certain countries that pay low rates, and many novice translators offer low rates, so my rate does not get accepted.
You don't get too many jobs on the job board asking for Maltese-target translations, it's true, although there have been at least 2 EN>MT jobs posted by USA-based companies in the last 2 months, and 1 from the UK, in addition to some from China. But there are two things to bear in mind:
1) As Katalin says, ProZ.com is not the only place to find clients
2) Here on ProZ.com, the majority of jobs never get posted on the job board - people select from the directory and contact their preferred translators for their particular job.
training is only for common languages- French/Italian/German. I am doing an online course to get a proper translation qualification but not available in Maltese.
That's a problem many people have, but you speak English and Italian and so there's nothing to stop you attending translation training: I'm sure just about any client will understand the nonsense of insisting on a qualification which doesn't exist. You will gain techniques that you can then apply in your pair(s).
Really, it boils down to the same maxim for you as for any other freelance translator: only do what you can do with excellence. Translating into a language that you don't have full command of is not what freelance translators should be doing (even if in-house translators have to do it), and translating between two foreign languages just doesn't make any sense at all. Here on Proz.com, there are very few translators into Maltese, and if a client looks for a native speaker living in Malta then you are going to figure high on his/her list. That must be your niche, surely. To be totally truthful, I think it's quite possible that many clients are put off by your too-low rates, as well as by your multiple source and target languages.
However, I believe this thread was started to discuss low rates and LWA, so this is getting rather off topic.
| | | | Josephine Cassar
Malta
Local time: 07:33
Member (2012)
English to Maltese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Not so common language | Apr 12, 2013 |
Very uselful tips. unfortunately, only 2 jobs in the last 2 months are not many , however, I did not know that most jobs don't get posted on the job site. It makes sense to arrange my language pairs then. Writeaway, the situation has changes as many are going for translation instead of finding work in the degree they graduated in.
Will certainly take up your suggestions as the forum has been very fruitful and I appreciate your suggestions. Thank you very much all.
| | | | | The majority of jobs never get posted on the job board - Really? | Apr 12, 2013 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Here on ProZ.com, the majority of jobs never get posted on the job board - people select from the directory and contact their preferred translators for their particular job.
Are you sure? Are statistics being kept on that?
If you go to a fast food joint, and they offer two prices of hamburgers, say, $2 (job board) and $5 (normal channels), which price of hamburger do you think will atract more customers?
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nice for the sharing information
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:33
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Many customers want quality hamburgers | Apr 13, 2013 |
Miguel Carmona wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
Here on ProZ.com, the majority of jobs never get posted on the job board - people select from the directory and contact their preferred translators for their particular job. Are you sure? Are statistics being kept on that? If you go to a fast food joint, and they offer two prices of hamburgers, say, $2 (job board) and $5 (normal channels), which price of hamburger do you think will atract more customers?
Nice analogy in these times of "contaminating substances" being found in all sorts of cheap(er) meat products. Don't many discerning customers prefer to shop for better quality 100% beef (or whatever is ordered) hamburgers?
When you post a job on the job board, you're going to have to wade through an awful lot of quotes - you can see that from the ones who ask for quotes directly through ProZ.com. For some agencies, price is unfortunately the N°1 requirement and they'll just pick the cheapest. Others may find someone good yet cheap - I'm not saying that doesn't happen. A few will discover from the quotes that they'll be better off going with someone who has quoted quite a bit more but who inspires confidence. That last one is the reason why I haven't turned my back completely on the job board as some others have: you CAN get good jobs that way, it's just that they are few and far between.
But many of the more discerning agencies, many end-clients, and many fellow translators who outsource on an occasional basis don't go that route. No, I don't have statistics - I don't know whether staff can provide them. But I know for a fact that those who have high visibility here by paying for membership, completing their profile, choosing specialisations, gaining KudoZ points etc. are contacted frequently by potential clients who have searched the directory and chosen a few people they have confidence in. People who already match most of their requirements. They are the ones that know the difference between a skilled translator and a typist, and are prepared to pay a reasonable rate for their translation. Although you also get contacted by a few timewasting bottom-feeders - they're everywhere.
| | | | | Agencies seem to come to ProZ looking for cheap rates | Apr 13, 2013 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: Miguel Carmona wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
Here on ProZ.com, the majority of jobs never get posted on the job board - people select from the directory and contact their preferred translators for their particular job. Are you sure? Are statistics being kept on that? If you go to a fast food joint, and they offer two prices of hamburgers, say, $2 (job board) and $5 (normal channels), which price of hamburger do you think will atract more customers? Nice analogy in these times of "contaminating substances" being found in all sorts of cheap(er) meat products. Don't many discerning customers prefer to shop for better quality 100% beef (or whatever is ordered) hamburgers?
It would seem that agencies come to ProZ looking for cheap rates. Just read the very justified complaints continuously posted by ProZ members.
My original question to you remains unanswered. Do you know any statistics that allow you to make the following assertion?:
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Here on ProZ.com, the majority of jobs never get posted on the job board...
Probably it is exactly the opposite.
Please, do not take me wrong. I am not interested in engaging in a fruitless argument at all. I am just looking for some factuality.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:33
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| See my previous post | Apr 13, 2013 |
Miguel Carmona wrote: My original question to you remains unanswered. Do you know any statistics that allow you to make the following assertion?: Sheila Wilson wrote:
Here on ProZ.com, the majority of jobs never get posted on the job board...
I rather thought this answered it:
No, I don't have statistics - I don't know whether staff can provide them. But I know for a fact that those who have high visibility here by paying for membership, completing their profile, choosing specialisations, gaining KudoZ points etc. are contacted frequently by potential clients who have searched the directory and chosen a few people they have confidence in. People who already match most of their requirements. They are the ones that know the difference between a skilled translator and a typist, and are prepared to pay a reasonable rate for their translation. Although you also get contacted by a few timewasting bottom-feeders - they're everywhere.
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| Most client contact happens through the directory and profiles | Apr 13, 2013 |
Hello Miguel,
Miguel Carmona wrote:
It would seem that agencies come to ProZ looking for cheap rates. Just read the very justified complaints continuously posted by ProZ members.
Projects where "low rates" are involved get a lot of free publicity, that's true. I do not remember seeing similar threads on well-paying projects and clients, but this is not because they are not there. We might speculate on why that happens, but to draw a conclusion like this solely based on forum posts would not be a good idea.
As Sheila says, most client contact on ProZ.com happens through the directory and direct profile contact. This kind of contact is obviously less visible than a posted job, which can understandably lead to a skewed perception of what is happening.
| | | | | Sheila, your speech is golden! | Apr 13, 2013 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Here on ProZ.com, the majority of jobs never get posted on the job board - people select from the directory and contact their preferred translators for their particular job.
Miguel Carmona wrote:
Are you sure? Are statistics being kept on that?
Sheila Wilson wrote: ... But many of the more discerning agencies, many end-clients, and many fellow translators who outsource on an occasional basis don't go that route. No, I don't have statistics - I don't know whether staff can provide them. But I know for a fact that those who have high visibility here by paying for membership, completing their profile, choosing specialisations, gaining KudoZ points etc. are contacted frequently by potential clients who have searched the directory and chosen a few people they have confidence in. People who already match most of their requirements. They are the ones that know the difference between a skilled translator and a typist, and are prepared to pay a reasonable rate for their translation. Although you also get contacted by a few timewasting bottom-feeders - they're everywhere.
I do confirm every word Sheila wrote.
My own statistics do confirm every word Sheila wrote!
Have a nice week-end
Catherine (a ProZian since 1999)
[Edited at 2013-04-13 17:09 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-04-13 17:11 GMT]
| | | | | "Confidential" clients :-) | Apr 13, 2013 |
Hello Jared,
Jared wrote: Hello Miguel, Miguel Carmona wrote:
It would seem that agencies come to ProZ looking for cheap rates. Just read the very justified complaints continuously posted by ProZ members.
Projects where "low rates" are involved get a lot of free publicity, that's true. I do not remember seeing similar threads on well-paying projects and clients, but this is not because they are not there.
Of course! It's because, in this case, every translator wants to keep those interesting and precious clients as his/her exclusive preserve
This is absolutely normal and a human reflex.
Jared wrote:
We might speculate on why that happens, but to draw a conclusion like this solely based on forum posts would not be a good idea.
As Sheila says, most client contact on ProZ.com happens through the directory and direct profile contact. This kind of contact is obviously less visible than a posted job, which can understandably lead to a skewed perception of what is happening.
Right!
Have a nice week-end
Catherine
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