| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | CAT Tool for one huge project Thread poster: Zamjestnanec
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| File types... team work... varia... | Sep 23, 2012 |
Zamjestnanec wrote:
Maybe its best if I just describe my situation: (...)
You didn't mention one decisive factor i.e. file formats.
If you realize a tool can't handle properly some specific format, you'll be forced to buy another one and/or find workarounds in the middle of the project...
I did compare 3 solutions, Trados, Memoq, and Deja Vu.
Could anybody here make a sound suggestion which one to choose, maybe with some background information?
It depends heavily of the project.
I own licenses of all abovementioned tools and I often use 'em in mixed workflows.
I.e. I can prepare the project in one tool because of some very specific filter features and translate in another one (mostly DVX).
Oh, and: Why does everybody seem to hate Trados?
A long time arrogance and a poor programming pays.
Recently they improved a little bit but nobody trust 'em...
I tried the Studio 2011 version and it worked quite well for me. What is superior about Memoq or DVX?
DVX and memoQ project files are in fact data bases, so the sorting, filtering, propagation etc. is by default far better.
IMO the text recognition algorithms are also better than in Trados Studio which throws too much false positives (biased by tags and numerals) and underestimates the real translator's work.
The DVX and memoQ installation and maintenance is a zero administration option.
If you start to have problems with Trados Studio, you'll need an IT guru to fix it.
The main problem is a very complex, counterintuitive and often not working terminology module (Multiterm).
Ah.
You said you have 6 in house translators working in a team?
The team enabled Trados Professional version price is a no go.
So, you have only two sound alternatives, i.e. memoQ or DVX, theý will be approx. 3-5 times cheaper, depending of the options.
Generally, memoQ has some better filters and features a graphic preview for some file types but DVX has far better leverage.
For a beginner, the team work is easier in DVX, i.e. it's almost no administration at all, unlike in memoQ.
Probably I would opt for one memoQ license if you have some very pesky files and a bunch od DVX as editors.
DVX is also cheaper now, so it would be my choice unless you have very specific needs.
Cheers
GG
| | | | Olaf Reibedanz 
Colombia
Local time: 21:44
Member (2003)
English to German
+ ...
| 1st choice: Déjà Vu; 2nd choice: MemoQ | Sep 23, 2012 |
Hi Stefan,
First of all, I would definitely NOT buy SDL Studio. From my experience with them, they seem only interested in making money and don't care about their customers. I worked with their products for a couple of years (on request of one of my clients) but had technical problems all the time. In the end, I removed the programme from my computer and swore to myself not to work it ever again.
As for the other two options, both have their advantages. Overall I prefer... See more Hi Stefan,
First of all, I would definitely NOT buy SDL Studio. From my experience with them, they seem only interested in making money and don't care about their customers. I worked with their products for a couple of years (on request of one of my clients) but had technical problems all the time. In the end, I removed the programme from my computer and swore to myself not to work it ever again.
As for the other two options, both have their advantages. Overall I prefer Déjà Vu, but I think that MemoQ is also a very nice tool.
Some advantages of MemoQ compared to Déjà Vu:
- While translating, it gives you a very nice context view
- Better support: They have a very fast, efficient and impeccable support whereas Atril's support is inconsistent. This said, I almost never ran into serious problems with Déjà Vu, as it's a very solid and stable programme, so I have hardly ever needed Atril's support in the 10 years in which I have been using their software. Moreover, there is a very active Déjà Vu user group with a mailing list where you can describe your problem and will soon receive competent replies from other users. 95% of my (very rare) technical problems with Déjà Vu were solved that way.
Some advantages of Déjà Vu compared to MemoQ:
- I prefer the interface, which I find more intuitive and easier to learn, but this is of course subjective (The only thing I dislike is their scan window for TM searches, which is a bit prehistoric in my opinion)
- Lower Price: If you wait for the next special offer, you can get the Professional version for as little as 250 euros and the Workgroup version for 590 euros - that's a real bargain. Moreover, unlike with MemoQ, all updates are free, whereas with MemoQ you have to pay a yearly fee of around 120 euros
- I find database management much easier in Déjà Vu: you can easily rename databases and move them from one folder to another, whereas in MemoQ everything is managed via a central dashboard, which I find very awkward.
- Higher performance/leverage thanks to AutoAssemble and DeepMiner
In summary: Déjà Vu is my favourite tool, but MemoQ is also a good choice.
Kind regards,
Olaf
[Edited at 2012-09-24 02:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | | | MemoQ vs. DVX | Sep 24, 2012 |
First of all, thanks for the many responses, I didn´t expect that.
To answer some of the appearing questions:
- The company did not have any experience in translating, our section was the mistreated stepchild. The idea came only up about 4 years ago when we were expanding into China, something like "ok, we are here, so why not translate the whole thing into Chinese". They added Spanish, German, French to that, but only hired some students who were doing their year abr... See more First of all, thanks for the many responses, I didn´t expect that.
To answer some of the appearing questions:
- The company did not have any experience in translating, our section was the mistreated stepchild. The idea came only up about 4 years ago when we were expanding into China, something like "ok, we are here, so why not translate the whole thing into Chinese". They added Spanish, German, French to that, but only hired some students who were doing their year abroad in China. As you can imagine, the results were horrible. I was hired some short months ago to fix all that, give the whole thing a structure and set guidelines. Choosing a CAT-Tool certainly is part of that.
- As for the file formats, the help documentation is html, so no problem there. With the labels and the messages it is more complicated, because they extracted them and put them into an Excel file. This means that in order to stay in context we have to do it screen-to-screen. I also looked into some visual localization software (again SDL .. Passolo), but it was explained to me from our IT-section that our software architecture is too complicated to support any of those programs.
Okay, I´ve pushed Trados aside for now and took a look into MemoQ and DVX.
Some questions came up:
- Is it possible that DVX doesn´t automatically update the TM when confirming a segment?
- It seems that DVX has some bugs in it, at least in the trial version. I cant import CSV files, the TM also sends me error messages.
- We have 2 Chinese translators, who are working full time on the project. Is it possible for them to share their work, i.e. share a live translation memory, so the entries they make update the work of the other? ▲ Collapse
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| single user vs. multiple users | Sep 24, 2012 |
Olaf Reibedanz wrote:
Some advantages of Déjà Vu compared to MemoQ:
- Lower Price: If you wait for the next special offer, you can get the Professional version for as little as 250 euros and the Workgroup version for 590 euros - that's a real bargain. Moreover, unlike with MemoQ, all updates are free, whereas with MemoQ you have to pay a yearly fee of around 120 euros
As I said earlier, the original poster is a corporate user with six in-house translators. You therefore have to compare the total price of a package with server + client licenses + support. Although Atril doesn't charge freelancers for support, can you be sure this is the same for corporate users? I don't think so. Or if it is the case, I wonder how sustainable such a policy can be. Developing and supporting a software product costs money, and if all your revenues come from a one-off price of 250 euros and even lower upgrade costs every 5 years or so, how can you pay for development and support?
[Edited at 2012-09-24 08:05 GMT]
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Zamjestnanec wrote:
- We have 2 Chinese translators, who are working full time on the project. Is it possible for them to share their work, i.e. share a live translation memory, so the entries they make update the work of the other?
This is how far € 80 per licence will actually take you:
CafeTran can work in a server mode, which offers connection to its memories from other computers over network. The typical use of the server mode can be a team translation where two or more translators share their memories while working on a project. Of course, the computer which works as a server and wants be available to other computers over the Internet must have a public IP address.
Another example of the server mode is connection and running the program on a server computer which has huge RAM memory and processing power for fast queries of very big resources.
http://cafetran.com/handbook.html#part2
Cheers,
Hans
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Zamjestnanec wrote:
As for the file formats, the help documentation is html, so no problem there. With the labels and the messages it is more complicated, because they extracted them and put them into an Excel file.
Basically all abovementioned tools would do.
The minor problem is Cafetran and most Java based tools don't handle XLS, the files should be converted first to XLSX.
This means that in order to stay in context we have to do it screen-to-screen. I also looked into some visual localization software (again SDL .. Passolo), but it was explained to me from our IT-section that our software architecture is too complicated to support any of those programs.
Indeed, if you have non standard controls, it may need some effort to make 'em work but it may be worth of it.
Some questions came up:
- Is it possible that DVX doesn´t automatically update the TM when confirming a segment?
It's configurable.
Tools, Options, Environment, AutoSend to Translation Memory.
Generally, I would enable all the Auto stuff here.
And Show segments and portions in separate windows.
And, on the General tab, I would lower the threshold to approx. 60%, activate the fuzzy terminology recognition and all the DeepMiner stuff.
- It seems that DVX has some bugs in it, at least in the trial version. I cant import CSV files, the TM also sends me error messages.
DVX doesn't handle CSV files.
You should save 'em as Excel or preprocess using another software.
E.g. Trados Studio has a nice filter for partially translated two column CSV files.
Ooops, you're talking about the import in the TMs/TBs...
Indeed, DVX fails if the CSV file contains multiple columns (approx. 20 or more), otherwise it should work if you select the correct separator and code page.
BTW, the code page can be selected independently for every column which is a big advantage for some files (e.g. memoQ permits only one code page selected globally).
- We have 2 Chinese translators, who are working full time on the project. Is it possible for them to share their work, i.e. share a live translation memory, so the entries they make update the work of the other?
It's one of the biggest DVX advantages.
You simply put your TMs and TBs on a network share and point 'em from both machines.
It works well for small teams like that.
You can even share the same project, including the same file e.g. one translator can continue the translation and the other one proofread the same file from the beginning.
For bigger teams, a DVX server (TeaMServer) would be better.
BTW
The dababases (TMs and TBs, not projects) can be also shared in Cafetran.
memoQ needs a server for this purpose, a server bundled with 5 clients costs approx. 5500 euro + VAT (in fact, one client license is needed for the server, so in reality only 4 licenses are available unless you decide to work interactively on a server which generally is a bad idea, IMO).
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2012-09-24 09:42 GMT]
| | | | | Chinese translators | Sep 24, 2012 |
Zamjestnanec wrote:
- We have 2 Chinese translators, who are working full time on the project. Is it possible for them to share their work, i.e. share a live translation memory, so the entries they make update the work of the other?
What you probably mean is that you have two translators who happen to be based in China, while (presumably) the remaining translators are located elsewhere. AFAIK, no CAT tool discriminates based on nationality 
With multiple translators, you would be getting a server/workgroup-based solution, in which case it's just a question of granting access to the project resources, regardless of location.
Kilgray has a "30-day trial version with pilot project coaching", see http://kilgray.com/editions/serverfive . Seems like a low-risk/low-cost way to test whether their solution would work for you.
[Edited at 2012-09-24 09:55 GMT]
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| DVX for corporate users | Sep 24, 2012 |
Dominique Pivard wrote:
As I said earlier, the original poster is a corporate user with six in-house translators. You therefore have to compare the total price of a package with server + client licenses + support. Although Atril doesn't charge freelancers for support, can you be sure this is the same for corporate users?
AFAIK no mandatory charge for desktop licenses but one year support contract is needed for the DVX server (20% of the license price).
Probably Stefan could go without server if some standard optimization is done (putting databases and projects on multiple separate physical disks or servers etc.), it would be OK as a cheapo solution for beginners but for a long time perspective, the TeaMServer seems a must.
It's bundled with five Workgroup licenses for approx. 4000 or 4500 euro + VAT, more packages are available (I don't follow it, so visit the Atril site).
BTW, one DVX Workgroup license is a must for serious project management, just like memoQ Project Manager edition (available only with memoQ server).
BTW, usually I run up to 4-5 DVX instances with my wife on a quite old 4 disk RAID-1 on a LAN and it's OK for normal interactive tasks but may get slowish when multiple background tasks are fired up (pretranslation, lexicon generation etc.).
The major problem with DVX is the desktop versions use the MS Jet (Access) engine which is not the fastest in the universe, the switch to the SQL Server made in the TeaMServer should give a big boost.
Nonetheless, I had no opportunity to test it myself but I had some favorable testimonies.
BTW, unlike in the "old" DVX, the DVX2 Professional can access the TeaMServer, so it's some room for maneuver assuming a TeaMServer with no bundled licenses is also available.
Cheers
GG
| | | | | Discrimination based on nationality... database sharing over Internet.. | Sep 24, 2012 |
Dominique Pivard wrote: Zamjestnanec wrote:
- We have 2 Chinese translators, who are working full time on the project. Is it possible for them to share their work, i.e. share a live translation memory, so the entries they make update the work of the other? What you probably mean is that you have two translators who happen to be based in China, while (presumably) the remaining translators are located elsewhere. AFAIK, no CAT tool discriminates based on nationality
Nope, Trados does
See e.g.
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/228464-why_are_serbian_latin_and_serbian_cyrillic_considered_being_two_different_languages_in_studio_2011.html
In the same way, Trados Freelance needs two slots for Chinese (Simplified and Traditional) for five language slots available...
With multiple translators, you would be getting a server/workgroup-based solution, in which case it's just a question of granting access to the project resources, regardless of location. Kilgray has a "30-day trial version with pilot project coaching", see http://kilgray.com/editions/serverfive . Seems like a low-risk/low-cost way to test whether their solution would work for you.
Indeed, it's a decent offer.
BTW, the DVX TeamServer also permits database sharing over Internet (not projects, AFAIK).
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2012-09-24 10:27 GMT]
| | | | | Just to give SDL (Trados) some support | Sep 24, 2012 |
Zamjestnanec wrote:
Okay, I´ve pushed Trados aside for now and took a look into MemoQ and DVX.
Hi Stefan,
It's always interesting to get responses by sending a question like this into a public forum and you've had responses from a dozen users from the tens of thousands out there but I hope you don't make your purchasing decisions on this alone.
Most, if not all, of the tools mentioned here will be able to provide demo solutions for you and may even be happy to visit your offices and look in more detail at the material you get and how you work so that the most appropriate solution can be suggested and then tested by you. This is really the only way you can get a realistic technical and financial offer on the table for a requirement like this and it won't cost you anything more than a little time to look at this properly.
If you would like to do this I would be happy to put the wheels in motion from the perspective of SDL? You can drop me an email at [email protected]
Regards
Paul
| | | | | Trying out Memoq server trial version | Sep 24, 2012 |
I think I`ll go with the server trial of Memoq for the moment. I am not sure though if this makes sense for us, since we mostly have only one translator working on one language at the time, with the exception of Chinese.
The whole development of our group is quite unsure, it might be that the group will grow to 2-3 translators a language, at which point live sharing of TMs and so on would be great. However, maybe we just stay with our 5 translators for now.
We´ll try out th... See more I think I`ll go with the server trial of Memoq for the moment. I am not sure though if this makes sense for us, since we mostly have only one translator working on one language at the time, with the exception of Chinese.
The whole development of our group is quite unsure, it might be that the group will grow to 2-3 translators a language, at which point live sharing of TMs and so on would be great. However, maybe we just stay with our 5 translators for now.
We´ll try out the server license anyway, but might just go for 4-5 freelance versions in the end. I heard that it is possible to get a deduction for the server license if one bought the freelance edition..
Thanks a lot for the input you guys gave me, to be honest, I was thrown into the whole situation without knowing much about the possibilities in this sector.. ▲ Collapse
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